Armscore, you have a real problem

[PeterJ]

This is a follow up to my "squib load" post from a week ago. Went to the range today and took a new box of Armscore 158 gr. FMJ 38 special to shoot in my 686's. After about 20 rounds I got ANOTHER squib load from their ammo. This is crazy. I am open to any comments that can attribute this problem to me or my guns, but I have no idea what it may be. For now, I am totally done with Armscore and hope they take this to heart and figure out how this can happen. 3 squibs ?

 

[Breakaway500]

I have had lots of bad luck with some of their ammo (.357 Magnum,38 special, 380acp, 32acp) and will no longer use it in any of my firearms, even if it's given to me. You are not the only one by far with an issue about their product.
There is a reason it occupies the bottom of most pricing lists. Now..If you had NOTHING else but a rock, sure. However...I'm hoping we never see that time..

 

[Valmet]

I’ve shot plenty of their 9mm and .45 with no issues but I’ll be sure to steer clear of their .38 Spl at this point…

 

[PeterJ]

I’ve shot plenty of their 9mm and .45 with no issues but I’ll be sure to steer clear of their .38 Spl at this point…

I have been shooting their 38 special for years with no issues but this, to me, is a serious recent problem.

 

[ruger 22]

I have had good luck with their center fire ammo but their 22lr is pure disaster----sticky and hard to get into the chambers of our S&W revolvers and lots of duds.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Tried some .22 once..........Bad stuff........NO more amscor ammo ever

It's like hitting your hand with a hammer.....If it hurts....DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

 

[CA Escapee]

I bought some Armscorp .45 ACP back around 2017 and fired a couple of magazines of it in my Colt/Wilson 1911. When I picked up the brass it had bulges in the cases at the back of where the chamber throat would be. I quit firing it and switched to a couple of other factory loads and there was no bulging at all.

I showed the brass to the shop where I got the ammo. We figured the brass had thin walls. I've avoided Armscorp ammo since.

 

[dsf]

Tried some .22 once..........Bad stuff........NO more amscor ammo ever

It's like hitting your hand with a hammer.....If it hurts....DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

Same here, their 22 lr ammo was by far the worst rimfire I've ever used. +3" groups from a Winchester 52 and CZ bolts = no thanks for me. Pretty dirty as I recall too.

Too bad, as they are otherwise a pretty good gun company.

 

[sshakrr]

I’ve never bought any. Always had other brands to choose from at same or lower prices.

 

[ReloadforFun]

The 38 Special can be a strange cartridge. Powder selection is important.

At least one ammunition company I aware of will conduct special tests with the 38 Special when looking at new powders. The test consists of firing the test rounds straight down, putting the powder charge against the bullet.

This is a worst-case situation and if there is going to be a BIB (bullet in bore) type of squib, it will normally happen with this test. Powders that pass the test will be used in production ammunition.

Other companies may not conduct such trials and use powders capable of giving problems. Recoil of preceding rounds fired (particularly) in a revolver may leave the powder charge next to the bullet, possibly presenting a problem situation.

The problems described with the Armscor ammunition make me think this may be a factor. Thereby, it may not be that they were faulty in loading the ammunition, simply that they are using an unsuitable powder.

Any time there is a problem with ammunition, get with the manufacturer. They want to know about it and try to determine the cause. It does them no good to not try to fix problems, and they want customers to be happy with their products.

 

[Montana Dan]

Are getting a low velocity "squib" or primer strike failures? My 586, Colt Python, AND my Ruger GP100 were getting failures to fire. You can see the primers are harder than others. I even sent my Python back to Colt (it was brand new at the time) and a box top of the ammo I'm shooting (per their request). Double actions in double action mode don't hit as hard as single action because there's less hammer travel. That being said they contacted me and said that armscor is junk ammo, don't use it. They shot my gun with good ammo and had no failures. I was getting 50% failures with the Python. He even sent me a heavier spring to try if it happens with other ammo. Haven't had a lick of trouble with good ammo since.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

IIRC, Armscor is a Philippine company producing both firearms and ammunition imported into the US under that trade name and others.

I'm not suggesting that imported ammunition is lesser quality than US production. Well known US companies have imported tons of ammo from all over the world and sold it under their own trade names. I doubt most manufacturers have not had problems with products.

 

[BC38]

The 38 Special can be a strange cartridge. Powder selection is important.

At least one ammunition company I aware of will conduct special tests with the 38 Special when looking at new powders. The test consists of firing the test rounds straight down, putting the powder charge against the bullet.

This is a worst-case situation and if there is going to be a BIB (bullet in bore) type of squib, it will normally happen with this test. Powders that pass the test will be used in production ammunition.

Other companies may not conduct such trials and use powders capable of giving problems. Recoil of preceding rounds fired (particularly) in a revolver may leave the powder charge next to the bullet, possibly presenting a problem situation.

The problems described with the Armscor ammunition make me think this may be a factor. Thereby, it may not be that they were faulty in loading the ammunition, simply that they are using an unsuitable powder.

Any time there is a problem with ammunition, get with the manufacturer. They want to know about it and try to determine the cause. It does them no good to not try to fix problems, and they want customers to be happy with their products.

Logically, the test you described makes a LOT of sense. As I understand the history, the 38 Special was originally developed as a black-powder load - right around the time that smokeless powder was coming into common usage.

So the 38 Special case is sized to hold more of the less dense, bulkier, black powder. Switching from black powder to smokeless powder means using powder charges that take up a LOT less space (less bulky), so it stands to reason that the smokeless powder charges are more likely to be "position sensitive". Simply because they are so much smaller in terms of bulk and filling the (relatively) large case.

You would think all ammo manufacturers would recognize this issue and perform the same kind of "worst case scenario" testing you described - where the powder charge is positioned as far away from the primer as is physically possible - when they are testing the reliability of their ammo.

Failing to test their ammo under this kind of "worst case scenario" seems very shortsighted and foolish to me.

JMO....

 

[6string]

Over many decades, statistically speaking, bargain basement priced ammo (usually off-brand, foreign-made stuff) is repeatedly proven to be junk.
Having worked as a range officer for many years, I have the buckets full of misfires to prove it.

Why is anyone here surprised?

Armscor is far from the only offender.

If it comes from a backwards third-world country, and is priced "too good to be true", you should expect the worse.
And, that goes for more than just ammo!

 

[Oldsalt66]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[CH4]

PeterJ, I am shocked. Did you happen to check to see if this box is from the same lot number? I am still awaiting news from the QA team; nevertheless, we’ll take care of you. I’ll email you.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Over many decades, statistically speaking, bargain basement priced ammo (usually off-brand, foreign-made stuff) is repeatedly proven to be junk.
Having worked as a range officer for many years, I have the buckets full of misfires to prove it.

Why is anyone here surprised?

Armscor is far from the only offender.

If it comes from a backwards third-world country, and is priced "too good to be true", you should expect the worse.
And, that goes for more than just ammo!

Yes........AMERC is horrible ammo too.

 

[PeterJ]

PeterJ, I am shocked. Did you happen to check to see if this box is from the same lot number? I am still awaiting news from the QA team; nevertheless, we’ll take care of you. I’ll email you.

Different lot number.

 

[Model19man]

This is a follow up to my "squib load" post from a week ago. Went to the range today and took a new box of Armscore 158 gr. FMJ 38 special to shoot in my 686's. After about 20 rounds I got ANOTHER squib load from their ammo. This is crazy. I am open to any comments that can attribute this problem to me or my guns, but I have no idea what it may be. For now, I am totally done with Armscore and hope they take this to heart and figure out how this can happen. 3 squibs ?

That's a serious problem. I would not buy any more of that ever.

 

[Buford57]

I also had problems with their .22 LR during the scare shortage about 12-15 years ago (won't mention who was in office to avoid a DQ). Bulged cases, FTE in everything from Semi auto to revolver to bolt action, wildly different report from the same box. I called them gave the lot number and they told me they were sending a shipping label and to send the remaining ammo (2 bricks less about 3 boxes) and the purchase receipt (which I had, since it was an online purchase). They gave me the choice of refund or replacement (took the former - I care too much about my guns to try again). Very nice people, crummy ammo. After that I never tried their CF offerings.