Arthritis: 4" vs. 4.25" vs. 5" and ported vs. non ported

Sheepdogged

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I've managed to break both wrists over the years and am starting to suffer more and more from arthritis.

I've never owned a 5" barrel. Is anyone familiar with the 4" M&P's vs. the 4.25" vs. the 5" and ported vs. non ported? In other words, where are the greatest gains to be had? I don't compete, but if a 5" ported pistol is worth it, I might consider it as a bedside option. If not, I can carry up to a 4.25" if I had to.

Thanks.
 
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PX4

On the subject of ported vs non-ported, I am sure that there will be a few along shortly to provide their pros and cons, I personally have found some advantages with ported pistols with regard to reduced muzzle rise and quicker time between shots back on target.

However, as someone who has experienced in the past some hand arthritis issues, I can offer what might be some helpful information. The Beretta PX4 Full Size and PX4 Compact have, what at least seems to me, the easiest slide to cycle and softest recoil of any 9mm pistol I have had occassion to shoot. Not sure, but I think that the rotating bolt assembly contributes in large part to making the PX4 series an extremely soft shooting and comfortable pistol to shoot, it happens to be extremely accurate as well.

Just my $ .02, hope it might be helpful.
 
The Beretta PX4 Full Size and PX4 Compact have, what at least seems to me, the easiest slide to cycle and softest recoil of any 9mm pistol I have had occassion to shoot. Not sure, but I think that the rotating bolt assembly contributes in large part to making the PX4 series an extremely soft shooting and comfortable pistol to shoot, it happens to be extremely accurate as well.

Just my $ .02, hope it might be helpful.

I agree 100%. I have had two full size Beretta Px4’s, my first in .40 S&W and the second in 9mm.

Having shot other smaller .40’s for carry for about 6 years, I was very, very surprised how softly the Px4 .40 shot. It felt like a 9mm. I bought the 9mm next and it is hands down my favorite shooting pistol. Slide manipulation is easy. Good capacity. Easy to grip and shoot. Reliable. Accurate. And IMO very svelte.

The primary reason I switched to the 4.25” full size 9mm M&P was to get a slide wide enough to support/fit an RMR. I have liked the aftermarket products available for the M&P and i shoot it as well as the $500 Beretta. However, I have about $2k invested in my primary M&P. My Beretta has Talon grips and that’s all. I bought an Apex Gunsmith Fit barrel for my FS Smith with 5” and threaded on a 4.25” slide/frame. Just attached a Suarez Back Alley Comp to replace the thread protector on the barrel. It should reduce flip/recoil a little, although my grip—no arthritis—does most of that work.

The new .380 EZ and 9mm EZ from S&W have similar “easy” features and most people like them. Worth checking out.

Good luck.
 
I have owned both ported (PC) and unported M&Ps in 9mm and .40, and notice a reduction in muzzle rise and quicker time to get back on target with .40, not so much with the ported 9mm.
I have a Fullsize MP9 with 5 inch barrel, and it is real comfortable and soft to shoot. It needed an Apex trigger upgrade.
It is more accurate than I am these days, not sure if I want to spend more money to upgrade the barrel too.
I don't have arthritis (yet) but just don't enjoy the big boomers anymore.
After shooting .40 and 10mm for years, the 9mm is downright pleasant.

I might add that my PC Shield has both 9mm and .40 barrels, but I have come to prefer the .45 Shield over the other calibers.
Dang it, now I find myself wanting a Fullsize .45 !
4BkS218h.jpg
 
I dont have wrist issues but I do now have arthritis in a thumb. That’s enough to affect my grip but mainly slide handling so I went to an EZ Shield 9. I had a PC Shield, personally didnt notice a big difference in flip over shooting a std Shield; but I assume that differences may be more noticeable on a full size model if ported.
I never shot my PC in the dark, frankly wouldnt in any model. But in dimmer indoor ranges I never had any concerns with flash. For what thats worth.
 
As some have pointed out, handgun porting does not reduce recoil, it is designed to reduce muzzle rise

I am probably getting to the point where I have to watch recoil myself, I have rheumatoid arthritis and my hand are severely affected.

The problem is that I like Magnums

The point about the PX4 is that the rotating barrel design produces the lowest recoiling automatic for that particular cartridge

Everyone knows that semi auto pistols use part of the recoil forces to extract and rechamber the ammunition in the barrel.

While the barrel in most pistols is unlocking, those recoil forces are still moving in a linear direction toward your hand

Guns like the PX4 or the Stoeger copy or the Colt All American, the Boberg pistols, the Mauser M2 and others change the direction of a some of the recoil energy to rotate and unlock the action.

XR45-sRs.jpg


M2-10s.jpg

Now there is less energy moving rearward toward your hand and those firearms are perceived as softer shooting pistols

The M2 pictured above was converted to 10MM Auto and it still shoots softer than most 40s out there

If it is possible for you to switch to a new pistol, this will keep you shooting handguns for several years longer

Now on the other hand . . . . buy yourself a shooting glove made from one of the energy absorbing gels. This material is amazing.

It is no trick, I tried this at the SHOT Show, I could not break the candy with a 2 pound sledge hammer

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxfzrWqkoI[/ame]

A shooting glove with a palm insert of this stuff will keep you into magnum shooting for quite a long time

So while I am a fan of ported handguns for what they do, I do not believe you will find the relief you are seeking if you continue down this path
 
Can't help with the M&P-specific questions as I've never owned or shot them, but I will concur on the PX4. A PX4 Compact has been my EDC for nearly 2 years now and it's a soft shooter. I've had hand/wrist issues for several years and recently my doctor said that I'm showing early signs of osteoarthritis in my fingers. The DA pull can be an issue, but there are ways to deal with that. The standard pull is very manageable and smooth, but I put a D hammer spring in mine and it made the DA pull noticeably lighter. Some people use even lighter hammer springs and still retain 100% reliability. One can even get a LTT Trigger-Job-In-a-Bag, or have LTT do a full trigger job, and get the DA pull even lighter/smoother.

The primary reason I switched to the 4.25” full size 9mm M&P was to get a slide wide enough to support/fit an RMR.

Just throwing this out there, but in case you didn't know LTT now installs RMRs on the PX4. Uses Glock mounting plates, but no back-up iron sights available for now.

PX4 Micro Red Dot Mounting Solution - Langdon Tactical
 
I have a M&P9c (compact), a 3913 and Shield 9. Recently I went to the range with a friend who had just purchased a new Sig P320 X5 Legion. I tried this 9mm out and it is by far the softest shooting 9mm pistol I have ever shot. They are not cheap nor light but the recoil feels more like a 22 than a nine. You might see if a range near you has one you can try. Good Luck!
 
I personally have found some advantages with ported pistols with regard to reduced muzzle rise and quicker time between shots back on target...

The Beretta PX4 Full Size and PX4 Compact have, what at least seems to me, the easiest slide to cycle and softest recoil of any 9mm pistol I have had occassion to shoot. Not sure, but I think that the rotating bolt assembly contributes in large part to making the PX4 series an extremely soft shooting and comfortable pistol to shoot, it happens to be extremely accurate as well.

Just my $ .02, hope it might be helpful.

Thank you, and I agree about the PX4 Storm (I have the compact, but now I am looking for an optics ready alternative).
 
I might add that my PC Shield has both 9mm and .40 barrels, but I have come to prefer the .45 Shield over the other calibers.
Dang it, now I find myself wanting a Fullsize .45 !

What is it that you like about the 45 Shield better than the 9mm?
 
Just throwing this out there, but in case you didn't know LTT now installs RMRs on the PX4. Uses Glock mounting plates, but no back-up iron sights available for now.

PX4 Micro Red Dot Mounting Solution - Langdon Tactical

The lines of the Px4, including the upward tapered slide with the narrow top, would be *******ized IMO by mounting an RMR with meat hanging off both sides. I also question the stability/longevity of such a mounting.
 
Thank you all thus far for your input. I know I am getting great advice because I'm 100% on board with the PX4 Storm Compact (as pictured). Now I am just looking for the best optics-ready platform. I am glad I didn't mention that earlier because it was nice to have my PX4 Storm-purchasing decision reaffirmed. ;) Although I could get an RMR cut for the PX4 through Langdon Tactical, it's $349. At that point I might as well buy another gun (which is what I plan to do). Besides, I am not convinced of always wanting to carry an optic anyway, so for now I am keeping my PX4 Storm Compact Inox with iron sights, but my aging eyes do long for a red dot, so that's why I am contemplating a new M&P with either a 4.25" or 5" barrel. I might make this my first light-bearing pistol as well which might favor the former, so that's what I am most curious about (whether there is much of a difference).

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1. As you can see I also opted for a SIG P229 (an Enhanced Elite chambered in .357 SIG, .40 & 9mm [by way of a Bar-Sto conversion barrel]). It is 34 ounces as configured with Hogue checkered G10 grips, XS Standard Dot sigts, and a Grayguns Fat guide rod which makes 9mm very tame (though it is more of a nightstand gun, but I do sometimes carry it AIWB). I could mount a optic here, but that's $235 (for milling & cerakote).

2. My PX4 Storm Compact Inox I mentioned previously is next to it in the second pic (second from the left). I have installed low profile G-decocker and Ameriglo night sights. I am actually getting ready to do a stipple job on her because rubberized TalonGrips don't stick to my hands very well (less so than say Glock Gen4/5 texturing, for example). I have granulate TalonGrips on her now, but soon when it's too warm for t-shirt under another shirt it will be like a cheesegrater against my skin (I've tried and it is uncomfortable, and unlike M&P M2.0 texturing, I can't tolerate it for long).

3. The Shield in the middle is a Performance Center Shield M2.0 with orange Ameriglo i-dots. Although porting doesn't affect recoil per se, the less wrist movement the better, so reducing muzzle flip at least has a psychological effect on perceived recoil. But to be honest, I sold my M1.0 Shield about five years ago and only recently purchased this, so I would be lying if I said it made a difference because I haven't shot ported & nonportd shields side-by-side. I got a really good deal on the PC Shield, otherwise I don't even think it would have occurred to me at the time to buy the Performance Center version. If it would have cost me another $100 or more, I would have bought a base M2.0 Shield and installed an Apex trigger (which I might unfortunately opt to do at some point). The reset is nice, but it's also the worst trigger among the six M&P's I've owned dating back circa 2005.

4. Second from the right is my new M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact. I sold my G26 and replaced it with this. It's a little heavier and will hold two more rounds in the flush mag configuration (making it heavier yet), and it's much easier and more comfortable for me to grip (and points more naturally). It's not that the G26 was hard to shoot, but when rheumatoid arthritis sets in, you just look for lots of ways to make life easier. I actually started reverting back to M&P's from Glocks because of Guns, Gear & On Target Training, LLC. The instructor has limited use of his left [off] hand, so he of all people is very sensitive to and cognizant of what works well regarding recoil, and he's a big M&P fan after mostly shooting Glocks for many years.

5. All I can say about the LCP II in .380 is that 1) I think it handles recoil better than the original LCP and even the Bodyguard 380 because of the extra width they've added to the grip, and 2) I plan on getting one in .22LR as a trainer.

Similar to my .357 SIG with a conversion barrel, I'd like to have a trainer for the LCP II in .380 ACP because little pistols are hard t shoot (and .380 is more expensive than 9mm thought still not as bad as .357 SIG). I don't carry this as often as I used to (or the Bodyguard I carried for many years before this). I don't prefer digging into my pockets to draw a pistol, so the LCP II is more about when I am required to conceal deeply in the name of "constitutional carry" (if you know what I mean).
 
Lastly, why .357 SIG with arthritis?

Some might wonder why I maintain a .357 SIG option while dealing with arthritis issues, but like colt_saa mentioned about still liking his magnums, I do see the benefit of having something around that is more powerful than 9mm.

As a normal self defense round, a 65 grain .357 SIG Underwood Xtreme Defender round, for example, is still lighter than most 9mm rounds. These extremely light projectiles travel very fast at approximately 2100 fps out of a 4" barrel to make up for their lack of mass and come in at about 636 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy which is more powerful than .40 S&W, .45 ACP and even most of the popular 10mm rounds for self defense (e.g. Hornady Critical Duty [523 ft. lbs.], Federal HST [567 ft. lbs.], Speer Gold Dots [537 ft. lbs.] and Winchester Silvertip [529 ft. lbs.]).

Shooting this round from a 34 ounce SIG P229 is unbelievably pleasant to shoot (less so from a Glock 33 I once owned). It might not be as accurate as a heavier 125 grain (or even heavier .357 SIG bullet), but it's certainly combat accurate and very powerful.

These rounds also have adequate penetration, but the lighter mass actually makes it relatively safe firing in one's home compared to testing I've seen with various calibers. I am not saying it is safer, but I do maintain these light high velocity/non expanding rounds aren't going to go through three houses either. These 65 grain XD rounds push the far end of acceptable penetration in gel testing (as Underwood rates it at 17.5" out of a 4" barrel). I did some testing with my SIG P229 (3.9" OEM barrel), however, and after going through a wall of drywall (single wall = two layers) and one layer of particle board, it bounced off a double pain glass window layer behind it (shattering but bouncing off the first layer but not even scratching the second). Here is a picture of the projectile.

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So if someone comes in my house and I only have time to reach my bedside pistol, it's a very good option in my opinion.

.357 SIG is also not a bad woods gun on anything less than brown bear. I've heard good reports from law enforcement using .357 SIG on black bear, cougar, and canines as the extra energy seems to put down such animals more effectively on average than 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP (though 9mm has even brought down brown bear). This is strictly anecdotal of course.

Anyway, even though my wrists & hands bother me more as I get older, it's still nice to have fairly powerful semi-auto option like the .357 SIG. I wish Smith & Wesson still chambered M&P's in this round because it can do everything a 9mm can do (being that it is a 9mm bullet), but it also gives the option of having a fast-moving light round which has its benefits as well.

.357 SIG & .357 Magnum also seem to offer a modest advantage in real world gunfights. .357 SIG doesn't have nearly the lethality of a shotgun or rifle round, but it is virtually as effective at incapacitating individuals as either of these options as shown here: An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association. Again, it's not a huge difference from 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP (and certainly shot placement is far more important than caliber), but it does seem that after evaluating about 1,800 bodies shot with various calibers in real gunfights, it does offer a 4-5% or greater advantage (assuming most people shoot the less powerful .357 SIG loads). That is not much, but people do things to their guns or practice certain tactics that statistically likely yield fewer real-world results. Again, I am not selling .357 SIG as clearly most of my guns are 9mm (and even .380 ACP), but I am a fan of .355" bullets in general, even with arthritis.

OKAY, IT'S TIME TO END THE QUARANTINE BECAUSE I AM POSTING WAY TOO MUCH! ;)
 

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My Beretta M9A1 is a pretty soft shooter even with stout rounds. I've heard the same with the PX4. Perhaps, in part, due to the non-tilting barrels.

Anyway, I have a fullsize M&P 9 (1.0, 4.25"). I put a 5" ported core slide on it with an RMR. Don't think I noticed any difference in recoil but I didn't think it was bad with the 4.25". Same for muzzle flip, but it's hard to tell looking through the RMR. My wrists can't tell much difference. The RMR does rocks!!

A good grip matters.
 
What is it that you like about the 45 Shield better than the 9mm?
The .45 Shield, while slightly bigger so not as easy to conceal, feels better in the hand, and is way more accurate and has way less recoil than you'd expect from a compact .45.

I can shoot it as well as any of my full size pistols, including my 5 inch 9mm, and it is not fussy at all about what ammo it is fed.
Recoil from the 45, even with +P Gold Dots, is just a gentle push, not as sharp as the higher pressure .40 or 9mm.
 
I have Arthritis at the Radial Head of both wrists and the base and second joint of both thumbs. For me any N frame with a barrel longer than 4 inches can be painful to hold. In a 1911 a 5 inch length is not painful to hold, however a 5 inch 1911 is lighter than my 6 1/2 inch 610 and the weight of the 1911 is balanced more to the rear.

As for racking a slide, cannot use a pinch grip at all to do that. The only way I can rack a slide is to use the overhand method and that sets off the trigger finger in my left middle finger. Currently the absolute limit for me is a 1911 45ACP with the hammer down, cocking the 1911 makes it much easier to get the slide moving.

One thing about Arthritis that is universal is that it can/will become very painful. If we hadn't had this Pandemic mess I was building up a fund to undergo stem cell therapy. While it's only 70% effective when it does work it's a miracle. Problem is the FDA hasn't approved it as a procedure for Arthritis so it's a 100% out of pocket elective procedure and I'm told about 10K per joint. Now I may have to wait until the FDA does approve this procedure or try and find a clinical trial.
 
I was using two canes to get around, and my doctor tried all those medications that have now been banned to no avail. Finally, he said, "Let's try this," and wrote a prescription for Mobic. Started me out on the 7½ grain strength then increased it to 15 grains. I have been taking it for years now (generic is Meloxicam) and rarely have to use a cane even on longer walks.

I have no money in this, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you haven't tried it, you might want to ask your doctor.
 
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