"Barn" find - old warhorses and a "tommy gun"

[jrm53]

This is about the above post: I went to duckduckgo and the one I was thinking about Commando Arms it came up in a shotgun news ad from 1992, it came in 45acp and 9mm. They didn't list price but it was 100 or so my memory is not as good as it once was. Jeff

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

A friend's uncle was a Thompson Collector, he had 3 transferable and 2 semi-auto Thompsons. My friend had one of the semi-auto Thompson and a semi-auto Commando in 45. They used the same mags, the Commando was about 2 pounds lighter. Commandos wore out and Thompson's went on forever!

Ivan

 

[ISCS Yoda]

"made before GCA68, so it was grandfathered" is nonsense. ATF does not care when it was made. ATF does not care what it was designed to do. If it will fire two or more shots with one pull of the trigger, it is a machine gun, and needs to have paperwork. If you do not have paperwork for the machine gun, you are in possession of contraband which will get you 10 years in club Fed with a $250,000 fine.

What Alpo said!!!!!!!!!

I believe that if the gun would actually fire full auto by holding the safety down - either by intentional design or buy a design flaw - ATF would be aware of it by now, and they would not allow them to be sold like any other gun. The fact that they apparently can be sold like any normal gun leaves me to believe that your internet research about them shooting full auto is incorrect.

I like agreeing with Alpo. We go back aways.

There is no way that ATF wouldn't know about this and if it's a design flaw or broken it probably needs immediate repair. Otherwise, see our first comment. Fully automatic firearms have not been legal for sale for many years without a $200 tax stamp. There is some weirdness with respect to pre- and post- 1987 full auto guns but I'd not rely on any of it. See below.

If it fired both rounds, I would then suggest getting in touch with ATF and telling them that you had just come in possession of an unpapered machine gun, and what did they want you to do with it.

I disagree with Alpo here. This is a very sensitive area with ATF. If it fires 2 round bursts it will qualify as a machine gun so I would lock that in a case of some kind and take it to a class III dealer forthwith. Leave it with the Class III dealer but do not give him the key. Let the Class III FFL discuss the weapon with the ATF - his possession won't get him arrested; your possession could as noted above.

I know a Class III FFL dealer who recently went through a similar scenario and told me about it. He had the NFA gun but the owner had the key. In the end the ATF let him reverse engineer it to non-NFA status and return it to the owner. The fun part of that was he got to keep the "offending parts" for possible future, legal use. But that's what his Class III FFL permits or maybe his manufacturing class FFL, I forget the numbers because it ain't my deal. But everyone walked away legal and happy.

 

[jag312]

I remember seeing an Eagle carbine many, many years ago. It had been converted to full auto by a small modification to the internal parts. Very easy.


I had a bank robbery case where the suspect used a certain semi-auto pistol. He had taken the gun apart and reassembled it wrong. Even though it fired from the closed bolt, it sure did work. I photographed it in detail to show how it could be converted to full auto and sent the photographs plus a detail description to Ed Owen at ATF Firearms Technology Branch. I never heard back. I didn't mention the make and model here because the moderators might not like me giving information on illegal conversions.


There was another open bolt,semi-auto carbine that I saw at an early SHOT Show. The manufacturer told me that ATF had examined it and determined it was "virtually impossible" to convert it to a machinegun. About 10 years ago, we got our hands on one. My co-worker and I disassembled it to see if it really was "virtually impossible" to convert. It took me about 5 seconds to see how it could be done. My co-worker was a little slow. It took him about 6 seconds. We brought the carbine to a Class 2 manufacturer, he did our conversion, and then transferred it back to our agency. It worked real good. The modification took only a few minutes. "Virtually impossible"? Not really. Again, no make and model.

 

[Greyman50]

There were and have been many machine guns in the back of closets since WWII. Our group was at the MacArthur Museum doing a WWI living history many years ago. We knew all the curators of many museums, all knew we were interested in all firearms. Curator brought out a stone Mint type 96 jap machine gun with no flash hider. Said an old lady pulled up in front of the museum and had it wrapped in a bead spread in the trunk of her car. Told him her late husband " brought it home" after WWII and she wanted it out of the house. Museums have legal means to register such, should have seen whats not out for public display.

 

[jack the toad]

Back in early 70's, I had a Commando Arms by Volunteer Enterprises- Knoxville, TN. Although from a distance it resembled a Thompson, that's about the only similarities.
IIRC, it was little over $100 novelty and picked up from the local OTASCO (Okla Tire And Supply Co.)
It got lots of attention just from the looks but that was about all it had going for it. I think I sold it for $125 shortly after getting it.

 

[shocker]

Story from Russia: after the collapse of the Soviet Union, crime had made the cities dangerous for ordinary citizens while the police force rebuilt itself. Out in the country though, villagers got their shovels out and dug up the AKs etc they had stashed away. Criminal gangs stayed in the cities.

 

[SF VET]

I heard of a someone, not personally known to me, who has an MP40 and and an STG. I could have brought back my M3 Grease Gun from RVN, as no one checked my handbag. I think there are more full auto weapons "out there" than one might think. But in the end, who wants an illegal firearm one can't take to a range and blast away. I have only been to an outdoor range once when someone had a full auto SMG.

I wouldn't want the risk. SF VET

 

[CajunBass]

When I was in high school, one of my teachers, a former WWII Marine, who had fought in a couple of the big battles in the Pacific would from time to time bring in a bunch of his "stuff." Flags, swords, helmets, etc. One thing that sort of stood out from the pile of Japaneese stuff was a British "Sten" gun. I never asked if it was deactivated, registered or whatever. But it was COOL to a 17 year old kid.

 

[Golddollar]

When I was in high school, one of my teachers, a former WWII Marine, who had fought in a couple of the big battles in the Pacific would from time to time bring in a bunch of his "stuff." Flags, swords, helmets, etc. One thing that sort of stood out from the pile of Japaneese stuff was a British "Sten" gun. I never asked if it was deactivated, registered or whatever. But it was COOL to a 17 year old kid.

Definitely something you couldn't do today!

 

[max503]

A 45 acp "Thompson" semi automatic was about the least impressive gun I have ever shot. What good is a super-heavy-weight automated sling shot?
At one time I had a Marlin 45 carbine, and it was fun. But it wasn't a boat anchor like the Thompson.

 

[LostintheOzone]

A guy I used to work with, probably deceased by now, had an MP-40 and she ran full auto. He was very careful about who knew that he owned it. He told me he purchased it from a guy he befriended in a tavern. It may have been registered before he purchased it, I have no idea, but state law here restricts having a machine gun in your possession and he knew that.

There are a lot more machine guns out there than people realize.

 

[desi2358]

I used to own one of the Eagle carbines. It was NOT full auto. While it might have been possible to alter it, as made, it was a semi-auto only firearm. It did fire from an open bolt which some felt made it too easy to convert to full auto (as, for instance, the later KG-9 pistol which had to be redesigned as a closed bolt TEC-9 to stay in production). my understanding is the ATF will nor approve any new type of open bolt semi any more because of the supposed ease of full auto conversion.

As to the OP's example, unless it has been altered or is somehow broken and firing full auto it is still a normal semi-auto rifle under Federal law. Some states (such as New Jersey) may have it banned but that would require knowledge of the state laws of the OP's location to determine.

As to mine it was a fun, heavy plinker. Reasonably accurate for an open bolt gun it used M3 grease gun mags and could burn through some 45 ACP in a hurry. Eventually got bored with it and sold it at one of the Ohio Gun Collectors shows. Don't remember now what I got for it but I was happy and quickly blew the money on something else I didn't need but wanted. I had the original box and manual with mine

 

[cmansguns]

Thanks for comments/assistance and help

I'm grateful for all the comments posted on my son's friend's (both men in their late 40"s) guns left to him when his father passed years ago.

We have determined that the Eagle is a low 4 digit, early version circa 1964/65. This version was the original, and is semi-auto only. It doesn't even have the large barrel trunnion nut of the later Eagle Mark II. The ATF issues were with much later versions long after Eagle had gone bankrupt The Spitfire was the much later, different company altogether version that the ATF found issues with.

The Eagle MarkII's can be found in completed auctions and seem to be in the $900 to $1,000 range for what it is worth.

I am grateful to Charlie Flick for comments on the VA marked flap holster, and it is coming over for a good looksee along with the other items found. The VA marked flap holster does appear to be for a revolver more than a 1911, and son's friend says no gun was in it when found at his dad's house. The back seems to be marked Bauer Brothers St. Louis Missouri but I'll confirm after good pics later.

The handguns are mostly a no-brainer, just disassembly to assess condition and originality

This "barn" find is turning into a real project for me, and I really want to help the young man with ID, condition and functionality checks, and possible valuation range for his records.

He did dig out the "Spencer carbine" last night and sent me some pics, along with another find in the attic that he had forgotten all about....a FN Herstal battle rifle, and a bunch of German WWII bayonets with scabbards.

I don't want to keep adding to this post...so am going to start a new one in a minute titled "Barn finds.....Part 2". As always, I appreciate any advance info you can give me or comments as this project will now take up considerable more time than a quick Sunday afternoon!