"Barn Find - Part 3..more finds, a lot more questions

[cmansguns]

If you are following my other threads last week about barn finds part 1 and part 2, then this is an update. I'm helping my oldest son's best bud identify, evaluate condition and try to current value as best we can, some old guns inherited from his dad who passed away many years ago, and these guns sat for years in a garage, until 2018 when they were moved to the current owners attic in his new home.

My son, his friend the owner, and the friends 18 yr old son all came over last Sunday afternoon for me to setup, photo, checkout what I thought were six (6) guns and a couple bayonets. The six guns were supposed to be (1) Eagle 45acp semi-auto rifle, (2) Spencer Civil War Carbine, (3) FN Herstal, Model 49 semi-auto rifle, (4) Colt 1911, (5) S&W Model 1917, (6) S&W BSR 38-200.

When they were done hauling out guns and putting inside my workshop....there were over 16 guns, a wooden case of M1 30-06 ammo, in en-bloc clips and factory cardboard sleeves, bayonets, scabbards and web gear, etc.

I've now got a heck of a lot of work to "help" and the questions are many as I begin the research. Many thanks to other Members who have posted and helped identify some particulars on the previous guns. The Spencer is complete, original and in very nice shape, even the bore is shiny and action is tight an smooth, the mag tube fit like a glove. Caliber mikes out to just over .529" so also authentic. The 38 BSR is also righteous, all correct, matching serial everywhere including right grip panel. No import marks anywhere but family history of grandfather bringing back from WWII Europe. Not been reamed, BNP proofs & serial lines up with lend lease. The FN Herstal Mod 49 turned out to 30-06 with Luxembourg crest and marks. It appears to have not been fired and the finish (both wood and metal) are pristine, like it was for parade duty. The butt-plate looks to have never hit the ground at "order -arms" unless they do it differently than USA

The others I'll update in another post as I want to get in some questions on some of these other treasures this man inherited:

Marlin No. 27-S, slide action, take down rifle, hexagon bbl (23"), Caliber is marked "25-20M" This appears to be a rimfire cartridge made and marketed by Marlin. The bbl is stamped
"special smokeless steel"? Have any of you seen or heard of this cartridge before? What's with the "smokeless" steel? Rifle is in fair condition.

Next up for question is a Winchester Model 74, vintage semi-auto 22 caliber rifle. round 21-1/2" bbl, s/n 281343A. Question on this rifle is that it is marked very conspicuously "22 L", not 22 LR which would mean to me a 22 Long. The ones I've seen for sale on GB and other sites ALL are listed as 22 Long Rifle. Is this one a real early one that may not be safe with modern 22 LR?

Last for now is a Remington, Model 24, with Browning patent stamps October 24, 1916. s/n 130241, approx. 1929 I think. Magazine tube fed, 20-3/4" round barrel. This another vintage semi-auto 22 rifle, but this one is stamped "22 Long Rifle only". Is the use of the word "only" so that a 22 Short would not be tried which may not feed correct or something?

Anyway.........there are others that I have to go through, H&R Topper Model 158, Iver Johnson Champion, Stevens 22/410, , Stevens Model 94H, JC Higgins Model 20 shotgun with something on the muzzle (appears threaded on) that is called a "Power Pack" (choke and muzzle device). Looks like a perforated sheets steel thing over the ribbed bbl and I have no clue yet how it is supposed to work...I'll work on tyhe shotguns later.

Some pics below, and as always...thanks for any tips, comments, help with ID, etc. You fellow members are the best source I know of for the real skinny.

PS. I asked and No....the man does not want to sell. All of these guns came actually from his grandfather, a WWII vet, handed down to his father, and now to him, and he intends some or all to go to his son who was over too. He is researching more family lore and records to see what info he can come up with but all these guns spent their life on mid-west farms with grandpa after the war, in barns, farmhouse rooms, and later my son's friend's father in garages and house rooms here in Virginia until 2018 when moved to current owners attic. He must address some surface rust on some of the older shotgun barrels, and only the Spencer and the FN Model49 were kept in side air tight, moisture proof, sealed bins.

Thanks again for listening. I can almost guarantee that SWCA will have a couple new members once I get him up to date of his S&W's as he has now had a glimpse of the expertise available on this Forum. He was very impressed that a poster was able to pin that very Specner Carbine s/n to issue to the 80th Regiment, Company E, 7th Penna Vol. Cavalry. Family history involves PA...so who knows...but at least he is off and chasing

 

[2152hq]

"....Marlin No. 27-S, slide action, take down rifle, hexagon bbl (23"), Caliber is marked "25-20M" This appears to be a rimfire cartridge made and marketed by Marlin. The bbl is stamped
"special smokeless steel"? Have any of you seen or heard of this cartridge before? What's with the "smokeless" steel? Rifle is in fair condition...."

Unless someone has tinkered with it,,the original factory chambering is the common 25-20 WCF.

Marlin actually developed the 25-20 cartridge by simply necking down the already in production 32-20 WCF.
Marlin called it the 25-20 Marlin (25-20M)

A couple years later, Winchester did the same thing in necking down the 32-20 to 25cal,,and they called it the 25-20WCF

The 25-20WCF name lives on,,the Marlin moniker hardly at all.
But they are the same cartridge.

The Special Smokeless Steel marking was just that.
A nickle steel used for the bbls when a smokeless powder CF round was to chambered.
Marlin called it their 'A' (grade) bbl steel

Bbls made for use with Black Powder will have 'Black Powder Only' roll marked on the left side of the bbl .
These were made with a softer low carbon steel. They called it 'B' grade bbl steel.
The early 38-55 and 32-40 Marlin lever actions are often found with 'B/P only' bbls though the customer could special order 'Special Smokeless Steel' bbl if they wanted to.
I don't recall when all that was dropped and they just made all the CF bbls from nickel steel and dropped the marking as well.


The Remington Model 24 was offered in a .22LR (only) version as well as a .22Short (only) version.

I imagine the 'only' marking was to keep the owners straight on which ammo. But also the semiautos were kind of a new thing when the 24 first came out in the early 1920's.

People were used to using .22shorts, Longs and LR in their bolt actions and single shots. Now something new in the semiauto in that it only functioned with the LR ammo (or 22short only)
To avoid owners being disappointed with their new M24 when it didn't work with a magazine full of mixed short, long and LR ammo,,the simple 'only' marking was intended to (hopefully) avoid problems once in the customers hands.

The Winchester 74,,I've never known them to be in anything other than 22LR (only) or the .22Short (only)

Yours was made around 1950/51 by the ser#,,well into the era of HV .22 ammo, So I wouldn't see any reason that the rifle was unsafe with .22LR HS ammo which came out in the 30's.

A broken roll die perhaps or maybe some were made for a special contract in .22Long.
European sales perhaps,though why would be the next question.
Don't know.
The rifle came out first in .22Short in 1939. Then followed up the next yr in .22LR version. I don't think many if any at all were made during WW2.

They were discontinued in the mid 1950's. I think the .22Short version a couple yrs prior.
Neat design with the tubular recv'r and the bolt disassembling out the rear of the recv'r after removing the bolt stop.
The sliding safety on top of the recv'r is another feature I don't think Winchester used elsewhere.

The JC Higgins M20 is actually a High Standard made shotgun. The Sears/Higgins variation was marketed before the same gun with the H/S name on it was brought out.
The PowerPak choke system was a HighStandard factory choke.
The choke tube itself is in the forward section of the perforated 'can'
Those choke tubes can be changed out so different chokes can be used.
The choke works a bit differently that most in that the shot charge and wad leave the barrel muzzle behind the PowerPak choke,,then actually jump a short span inside the can where the perforations are.
Then the shot charge & wad enter the choke tube itself at the end of the devise and is constricted to the degree indicated on the tube.

The idea of the shot w/wad jumping the span inside the devise was that it was at that point that some of the excess gas would bleed out through the side vents.
This would reduce recoil which it does to some extent.

These were designed when fiber wads were in use both factory and reloaders used them as well.
When these PowerPak chokes are shot with modern one piece plastic wads they have a tendency to rip the petels back on the wad as it passes through the free flight zone in the can. Some of that plastic then gets stuck in the vents on the can.
It can't do much for your patterns either.

The Lyman Cutts Comp choke is similar to the PowerPak in looks but was so much more popular.
Extra choke tubes and some parts are still avail for the PowerPak from Corsons Bbls (.com)

 

[max503]

We had one of those J.C. Higgens "power choke" shotguns when growing up.
Eh...It worked.

I remember it patterned real low. I had to aim about two feet high to hit anything. I built up the cheek rest with Dr. Scholls stick-on foot pads after the gun got handed down to me.

 

[Greyman50]

Post pics of web gear, will ID it.
M-2 ball in clips for M-1 should be easy to sell. Check date on cartridge base, M-2 after 52-52 should be non corrosive, 1 mfg’er of match kept using corrosive primers.