OP
The split tail devil (Bonanza) gets the bad publicity as the killer but I think of it as a class of A/C, like the Mooney.
But Colby, you are in the wrong thread!!
This one is about the helicopter crash. 
Bell 206 Goes Down
- Thread starter Retired W4
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The split tail devil (Bonanza) gets the bad publicity as the killer but I think of it as a class of A/C, like the Mooney.
But Colby, you are in the wrong thread!!
This one is about the helicopter crash. 
He lost the main rotor ,possibly a mast bump …..possible (?)…but doubt it..… also read that the tail boom separated in which case that could cause a strike to the main rotor…..all speculation right now. The NTSB/FAA will conduct a thorough investigation and determine the causative factors.
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I always heard it called the 'forked tail doctor and lawyer killer.'
Someone mentioned bird strike avoidance may have caused a mast strike, as a possibility.
OP
It's difficult to get a Bell 206, or a UH-1 for that matter, into mast bumping with normal rotor speed, mainly an extreme yawing moment at cruise airspeed At about 10 bumps per second it doesn't take long for the mast to break. I saw it happen to a friend of mine while we were training at Ft. Rucker. All 4 on board were killed on impact. Freak accident that would take too long to describe. The mast broke right below the hub. In the case of the 206, the mast was in tact with the transmission still attached. Not caused by mast bumping in my opinion.
OP
Mast bumping can also be cause when you unload the rotor (zero or negative G's) and then a large cyclic input. Semi rigid systems like these older two bladed Bells must have positive G's for safe operation. I did not see that type of maneuver in the available videos.
Making a very hard turn loads the rotor even more, making mast bumping even less likely to occur
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LVSteve
Member
Why is it called "mast bumping" when it is really a blade strike?
When my oldest daughter was in Iraq she flew (as a passenger) in a Blackhawk over Baghdad. The pilots were jinking back and forth and her Sergeant was kinda rattled but my daughter (who had riden with me several times on the job) loved every second of it. The pilots had a sign over the windshield that said “Fly It Like You Stole It”.
I never met an Army Aviator (WO or Crew Chief) I didn’t like. (Ironically my cousin’s son retired as a CW4 Dust-Off pilot a couple years ago.)
Our Evergreen pilots all had gray hair - that always is a positive sign.
on the subject of maintenance of Army aircraft it was my first hand experience and knowledge that there was no foolishness going on with maintenance. The pilots and crew members were acutely aware of the condition of the choppers every day and if any knowledgeable person detected anything that needed attention there was a red pencil in the log book and it was noted with a red X and that chopper was not flown until it was corrected and signed off by appropriate people. I see lots of comments from people who are just talking with no actual knowledge. I was in A company of the 82nd aviation battalion at Ft Bragg Simmons Army airfield and my experience was maintenance was top notch and safety was never compromised.
No experience with Army Aviation (other than they seemed to be the nicest soldiers to talk to), and I’m glad they had what they needed to keep them flying safely. When I served (immediate Post Vietnam era) the rest of the Army I came in contact with didn’t even have the parts to do brake jobs on duece-and-a-halfs (I’m one of those guys that have tires and batteries replaced before they’re worn out).
No offense intended, I have nothing but respect for our pilots and crew chiefs.
No offense intended, I have nothing but respect for our pilots and crew chiefs.
OP
The pilot, Seankese "Sean" Johnson received his commercial pilot's certificate in 2023. The commercial certificate only means you can be paid to fly. There is no mention of an instrument rating on his ticket. News reports identify Johnson, and confirmed by his wife, as a former Navy SEAL. I've been wondering if he was actually a SEAL, or just assigned to a SEAL unit. Anyone here have the inside track on that information?
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The best description of a helicopter I have ever heard is "Ten thousand pieces all trying desperately to get away from each other". No humor intended at all! Apparently this aircraft had sufficient flight cycles for this to come true, unfortunately.
A friend of mine refers to them as frantic palm trees....
LVSteve
Member
The best description of a helicopter I have ever heard is "Ten thousand pieces all trying desperately to get away from each other". No humor intended at all! Apparently this aircraft had sufficient flight cycles for this to come true, unfortunately.
I suppose that goes along with "Helicopters don't fly, the ground rejects them."
Your description also reminds me of the description of the Avro Shackelton, "a hundred thousand rivets flying in close formation." I think it has something to do with the odd engine note of the Griffon motors and their counter-rotating props.
OP
The answer by the powers that be is shut down all NYC helicopter tours. The FAA has shut down the company that operated the crashed aircraft while they investigate. I can tell you that these operators don't always hire the most experienced pilots. Many pilots use these jobs to build flight time until they can get hired by someone that pays a little better. The pilot in this incident had only 788 total hours, which is not that much, and had his Commercial for less than two years. I am not blaming the pilot because I don't know the whole story. I'm leaning towards catastrophic mechanical failure, but those things are almost always preceded by some warning, subtle as it may be.
Retired W4: Thanks for bringing experience and reason to the table. So often, there's speculation or simply incorrect information floating about. I appreciate hearing from someone who's speaking from a position of knowledge.
