Hodgden tells me not to use plated (Berry) bullets for reloading revolvers as they do not accept a crimp and revolvers must be crimped or the bullets will creep when firing rounds. But... I have been firing Geco .38 Specials thru my 686 without problems. They are fmj flat point with no crimp, 750 rounds of 158 gr and meeting IPSC Minor. Is this true? I would really like to use Berry's plated flat points.
Berry bullets for .38 Special revolvers
- Thread starter robmont
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Well, I have been using Ranier and Berry 158gr plated bullets for IDPA Revolver since the turn of the century, many tens of thousands of them.
I use a simple roll crimp that only takes out the flare until the case touches the bullet.
You should have no trouble loading to minor power factor; hundreds, if not thousands of people load minor .38 with plated.
Magnum loads are a different story, and you should not use plated bullets trying to load .357 major.
I use a simple roll crimp that only takes out the flare until the case touches the bullet.
You should have no trouble loading to minor power factor; hundreds, if not thousands of people load minor .38 with plated.
Magnum loads are a different story, and you should not use plated bullets trying to load .357 major.
Calliope
Member
Unless you have an ultralight .38, it doesn't take much, if any crimp. In my mid range .357 loads with plated bullets I use a taper crimp die and give a very light crimp, my profile crimp worked well too. Recovered bullets show a light crease where the case mouth was, but no cutting or peeling of the plating.
Keep your case mouth expansion and flaring to a minimum to maximize bullet tension, and you shouldn't have any problems.
Keep your case mouth expansion and flaring to a minimum to maximize bullet tension, and you shouldn't have any problems.
muddocktor
Member
X-Treme also sells some plated 38 caliber bullets that have a cannelure if you are worried about crimping. I've had no problems with their bullets and even hard crimping in the cannelure on 357 Mag rounds loaded mid-hot.
Vortec MAX
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I shoot Berry's 125 GR FPs out of my wife's 638 and my 438 all the time. I have never had an issue with "creep." The crimp bites into the side of the soft lead (copper plated lead) but does not hurt anything. I use a LEE Factory Crimp Die set to contact the case plus an additional 3/4 turn. Seems to work well for me.
Mike
Mike
scooter123
Member
I would like to see a link to that statement attributed to Hodgdon. Because if their Ballistician made a claim this dumb he should be fired. Other powder manufacturers have no issues at all in recommending the use of plated bullets in 38 special loads and there is a vast number of reloaders using Berry's, Extreme's, and Rocky Mountain's bullets for 38 special loads. If there was a problem with these types of bullets either jumping crimps or not being able to be crimped I'm certain that it would be all over the internet.
BTW, I am one of those who has been loading 38 special with plated bullets for years. When I first started I put a very heavy crimp on some test mules and after pulling the bullets and checking for cracked plating with a 20 X loupe didn't see any failure in the plating. I've also found they make nice clean shooting accurate ammunition. Never had a bullet jump crimp and never had one fly apart 5 feet from the barrel as some will claim can happen if they are "overcrimped".
BTW, I am one of those who has been loading 38 special with plated bullets for years. When I first started I put a very heavy crimp on some test mules and after pulling the bullets and checking for cracked plating with a 20 X loupe didn't see any failure in the plating. I've also found they make nice clean shooting accurate ammunition. Never had a bullet jump crimp and never had one fly apart 5 feet from the barrel as some will claim can happen if they are "overcrimped".
Lots of the plated FN "Target" bullets do not have a "Can.".....
but the 148 and 158 may come with a cannelure on the bullet
in some of the companies that make plated bullets.
I don't see a problem with just shooting light target loads and a light crimp on the bullet.
but the 148 and 158 may come with a cannelure on the bullet
in some of the companies that make plated bullets.
I don't see a problem with just shooting light target loads and a light crimp on the bullet.
Ben_hutcherson
Member
I've shot a lot of plated bullets in 38 Special.
For target loads, the Berry's are fine. Give them a little bit of a crimp and they'll hold. I think the only potential for problem might be in an ultralight scandium revolver, but even there I don't know if you'd have to worry about it.
As mentioned, Xtremes do have a cannelure. I've also been using CamPro plated HBWCs, which of course are flush seated and can put a light roll crimp over the case mouth without worry(just as I would do with lead bullets).
For target loads, the Berry's are fine. Give them a little bit of a crimp and they'll hold. I think the only potential for problem might be in an ultralight scandium revolver, but even there I don't know if you'd have to worry about it.
As mentioned, Xtremes do have a cannelure. I've also been using CamPro plated HBWCs, which of course are flush seated and can put a light roll crimp over the case mouth without worry(just as I would do with lead bullets).
Clovishound
Member
How's the accuracy of plated vs lead in .38? I have been thinking about switching to plated in .38.
jknapp
US Veteran
I've used the same bullet and method as Vortec MAX and have had no creep or problems with my 38 SPL reloads.
I find the Berry 158gr FP to be about as accurate at minor power as the Hornady 158gr lead, which is very good. It will break a teacup at 25yds if you can hold the gun still.
For the 148gr WC, maybe a small edge to the swaged lead at low velocity.
Calliope
Member
I shoot .357, but the accuracy of the Rainier 158 RNFP and Berry's 148 DEWC is excellent in my scoped revolver and carbine. Every bit as good as the Hornady swaged bullets. You just can't do really light loads with plated, too much risk of sticking one in the bore (did that).
riverrat38
US Veteran
"You just can't do really light loads with plated, too much risk of sticking one in the bore (did that)."
I stuck a plated WC with a light load of WW231. It was very difficult to remove. It was 1 inch from the muzzle of a 6 inch M14. It took a steel rod and a heavy hammer to drive it back out. The plating was twice the original length when I got it out, with the lead in the end, unchanged.
I use maximum loads for standard or plus P now.
Best,
Rick
I stuck a plated WC with a light load of WW231. It was very difficult to remove. It was 1 inch from the muzzle of a 6 inch M14. It took a steel rod and a heavy hammer to drive it back out. The plating was twice the original length when I got it out, with the lead in the end, unchanged.
I use maximum loads for standard or plus P now.
Best,
Rick
DWalt
Member
Not a Berry bullet, but I shoot 158 grain FMJ bullets without cannelures in relatively light (about 1100 ft/sec MV) .357 Magnum loads. I do not attempt to crimp them, and have never had any problems with bullets pulling out of their cases under recoil. Not that it couldn't happen with Berry bullets, but if FMJ bullets won't move, then I doubt Berry bullets would move either.
"I stuck a plated WC with a light load of WW231. It was very difficult to remove. It was 1 inch from the muzzle of a 6 inch M14. It took a steel rod and a heavy hammer to drive it back out."
That's why I keep a 6" long 5/16" dia. bolt and a small hammer in my range bag. I've had a few bullets stick in the bore with very light loads over the years.
"I stuck a plated WC with a light load of WW231. It was very difficult to remove. It was 1 inch from the muzzle of a 6 inch M14. It took a steel rod and a heavy hammer to drive it back out."
That's why I keep a 6" long 5/16" dia. bolt and a small hammer in my range bag. I've had a few bullets stick in the bore with very light loads over the years.
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STORMINORMAN
Member
As a newbie...
I must ask: are not the "published minimum loads" from the powder companies SAFELY beyond what are referred to as "light" or "minimum" loads and pretty much beyond the propensity to be "squibs"?
What I'm really asking is if a correctly loaded manufacturer's "minimum" load should be trusted not to get stuck in an automatic caliber, i.e. 9mm barrel, or must one reaĺy test a series of progressively higher sample loads at single fire?
Prior to even thinking about reloading I can't remember ever worrying about a SQUIB, much less who to blame... We are so spoiled: guns & butter!
Cheers!
I must ask: are not the "published minimum loads" from the powder companies SAFELY beyond what are referred to as "light" or "minimum" loads and pretty much beyond the propensity to be "squibs"?
What I'm really asking is if a correctly loaded manufacturer's "minimum" load should be trusted not to get stuck in an automatic caliber, i.e. 9mm barrel, or must one reaĺy test a series of progressively higher sample loads at single fire?
Prior to even thinking about reloading I can't remember ever worrying about a SQUIB, much less who to blame... We are so spoiled: guns & butter!
Cheers!
Calliope
Member
It's using lead data with plated bullets that gets us in trouble. When I stuck my plated bullet, a .38/148 DEWC, I was trying to make a light target load. I used starting data for a lead DEWC, but used a slightly longer COL. The extra room in the case combined with the extra friction from the plated bullet was enough to leave the bullet in the middle of a 4" barrel.
Since then I never use anything less than the minimum starting load for JACKETED bullets when loading plated.
Keep your plated loads to minimum jacketed data or better and you'll be fine. Plated bullets have a lot of friction, especially those with long bearing surfaces like wadcutters.
With autos use jacketed data for a starting point.
Since then I never use anything less than the minimum starting load for JACKETED bullets when loading plated.
Keep your plated loads to minimum jacketed data or better and you'll be fine. Plated bullets have a lot of friction, especially those with long bearing surfaces like wadcutters.
With autos use jacketed data for a starting point.
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Chrono test equal loads ( bullets weights and powder charges) comparing lead bullets to the plated bullets. This was a real education for me. Don't have my notes in front of me, but I was amazed at how much slower the plated bullets were. After adjusting the charge, I have found that I really like the plated for my revolvers now.
Calliope
Member
Here's a good article on loading plated and powder coated bullets compared to conventional bullets.
How Fast is your Bullet?
How Fast is your Bullet?
Vortec MAX
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Great article! I printed it out and will be putting it into my reloading binder.
Thanks for sharing that.
Mike
m657
Member
While I do load a lot of 38 special, can not recall how long ago it was I used plated OR FMJ.
Cast lead works so well haven't had to change.
Do load 357 mag now & again (maybe a couple times a decade).....
I've used the cannelure with my boolits....which are pretty much left over from the age of Mastodons & glaciers.
Cast lead works so well haven't had to change.
Do load 357 mag now & again (maybe a couple times a decade).....
I've used the cannelure with my boolits....which are pretty much left over from the age of Mastodons & glaciers.
