Best combination for Chief's Special

[RacingSnake]

I'm using a 158g lead SWC in a 2' model 36 - should I use a fast or medium burn rate powder?

Regards, Racingsnake

 

[indiandave]

I've been loading Speer LSWCHP's with 6.2 grains of AA#5 with good results. For target shooting I use 3.8gr's of Winchester 231 with 158gr LWC's

It depends what you want to do. Fast powders like Winchester231 are great fot target shooting Slower powders like AA#5 or hs-6 are better for self defense loads.

 

[RacingSnake]

Indiandave, thanks for your reply.

I don't know much about powder burn rates...why do you say that slower is better for self defence?

Regards, Racingsnake

 

[charliek]

Slower powders generally can be loaded to higher velocities. Shooting a snubbie will result in lower velocities, but they will still be higher than shooting fast burning powders.

 

[bluetopper]

For me, Bullseye has always been pretty hard to beat in 38 Special in whatever loading you so choose.
But really, a very wide array of shotgun/pistol powders even some for the magnum calibers will perform very well in 38.

 

[jsmith357]

I use 3 gr bullseye behind 158 gr in my j frame for practice - nice comfortable load

 

[Bongos17150]

I use 3 gr bullseye behind 158 gr in my j frame for practice - nice comfortable load

That is another point, do you load for what you practice or hotter for defense (recoil is more). Personally, I do not enjoy shooting defense loads in a snubby, but it makes sense to as it's for defense and you really want something that has the punch. I guess accuracy is not too important as it probably will be less than 7 feet

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

My snubby defense load is 4.7 gr. Unique under a Speer 158gr LSWCHP. The manuals are all over the map on Unique--the older ones tending to be quite a bit hotter for "standard" loads.
Taken on average, 4.7 is right on the line between standard and Plus P. It gives me 815fps out of my 642. Should be a little more comfortable to shoot in a Chief. My practice load uses the same bullet over 2.7 grains of Trailboss--POI is very close to the defense load...an important consideration IMO. I tried 105 and 125 gr. lead and found POI to vary by as much as a foot. I think it's hard to go wrong with Unique for .38 special. It's been around forever so there's a wealth of load data. It's not as clean as Bullseye for light loads, or as suited for max loads as some slower powders, but it can do it all pretty well.

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

One of my next projects is to work up a practice load with Unique and the 158gr Speer--3.3 grains or so. 2 grains under a 76 grain cast works wonderfully in my .32 HandR mag.

 

[H Richard]

With 231 (also my favorite powder) I load 4.7 gr with the SWC and 4.9 gr with the 158 gr RNFP. My old Lyman cast bullet book listed the 4.9 with the RNFP as potentially most accurate load and in my guns it is. From my 6" 686 goes 906 fps. I shoot it in everything, and is not considered Plus P.

 

[John P.]

For my old m-60 I use 4.3 Unique with a swaged L-SWC. Light load but great for plinking with a J frame.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A while back I did a lot of work on replicating the FBI Load. My best results were obtained using HS-6. Don't concern yourself with the shorter barrel. Even though you will lose velocity in a short barrel you will still generate more velocity with less pressure using a slower powder.

From a 2" J frame I was able to generate an average velocity of 889 fps with a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet using HS-6. If your a fan of Accurate powders AA#5 might get you there too. I use AA#5 to replicate 135gr Speer Short Barrel .38 Special +P ammo.

 

[chief38]

For the first 25 years I used Bullseye under a 158 grain RNL bullet. About 5 years ago I switched to Tite Group using the same bullet. The Bullseye was a good powder, just a bit on the dirty side; the Tite Group seems a little cleaner. I shoot these in all my .38 Spl. revolvers including my 2" Chief's and alike, with good results.

Chief38

 

[RacingSnake]

Thank you for your opinions guys. The great thing about the 38 special is there are years and years of combined experience in relaoding for them.

I had been thinking of a faster powder but since my favourite bullet is a 158 gr SWC I think I'll stay with the slower powders.

I've also started a thread in the Ammo board about 148gr WC for defense and the ideal velocity.

How many of you practice with a load the same / similar to what you carry?

 

[wiley]

Speer makes a 140gr jacketed HP and also loads it for a +P, especially for 2" barrels

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I have always used W-231/HP-38 for my .38 special loads. 3.5 grs. with a 158 LSWC for light training ammo, and 4.0-4.2 grs. with same bullet for range ammo/target shooting.

I generally will use slower powders for heavier magnum loads, and the faster powders for lighter loadings like the .38 special.

Here is the burn rate chart for you.

Burn Rate

RacingSnake;
How many of you practice with a load the same / similar to what you carry?

I replicate factory .45 ACP loads and .357 magnum loads for range use/practice. So much has been said about the possible legal ramifications of using reloads for self defense, that I don't see any good reason to take a chance with it. There is plenty of great factory defense ammo out there


WG840

 

[olskool]

i use 4.5-5.5 gr. of unique with a soft cast lead lyman hp. depending on the gun it will be used in. but a real clean and accurate load for jackets is a 140 gr. speer hp. with 7.5-8 gr. of blue dot. the 8gr. is around +p back in the 70s for +p loads we were using 8.4 gr. of blue dot with a 140gr. speer in a model 15 back then i loaded some and gave them to my dad when he moved to fla. for a while. one. night he had to shoot an intruder with one in that 15, he shot him high in the leg. it was a 220 lb. man drugged up and drunk. my dad said when he shot, the man wobbled side to side then fell and started crying like a girl! so much for a 38 not being a defence round.

 

[kenny s]

reloading for decades, but just bought my first .38 snubby model 36. Nice clean gun.
I loaded 4.0 Unique and the 158 RNFP and at 35 feet (offhand) all went into a 2 inch circle, dead center.
I bought it as a carry and bedroom gun....
I'm debating about hotter loads, but at 'minute of bedroom', I don't think it will matter much...
Two slabs of Elk Antler are on my bench...that first....
Ken

 

[Paul5388]

If you look here BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #8, Speer Inc, 1970 :: aan you'll see some actual velocities out of a 2" barrel. You'll also notice the medium burning powders develop the highest velocities, if you're trying to get some bullet expansion out of a 2" barrel.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I prefer to work with powders that I can accurately drop each time. Some guys say they can drop Unique charges with regularity. I'm not in that group; I'm with the side that won't even buy the stuff anymore. So I found that HP-38/Win231 flow like water for me and they are what I use. The last thing I ever want is to be making something a little hot like a defense type load, check the tenth one and see it's fine only to not know that the one behind it is a near double charge and the one behind that is a squib. I love all the flattened ball powders but the flake stuff can all stay on the shelf. It slays me since at a glance they don't look that different. Unique almost made me stop reloading early on from all the bad loads I would find. I'm glad now that I didn't stop since someone gave me some HP-38 to try out.

 

[setxn]

I just tried out some "new" Unique with good results. My set-up is an old single stage press with a manual powder measure, I usually weigh every 10-15 loads to check consistency. I've used this method along with careful visual inspection for quite a while with no problems for handgun rounds. I loaded 4.5 gr unique with my cast 158 SWC. These were shot in 5 different revolvers with 4 barrel lengths-accuracy was fine-recoil just a little more than some factory 158 gr RNL we compared to. The all steel snubbies were no problem to shoot.4" K frame & 6" L frame were a pleasure. I started on the low end because one of the test guns was an inherited M36 no dash that gets treated real well. The 4.7 gr load that Mr Briscoe mentioned in post #8 should be a nice load also- I'll probably work up to 5.0 grains for the other revolvers.

 

[Paul5388]

ArchangelCD would be the one that would know for sure, but I think HS-6 is a ball powder that should meter well through a progressive.

However, I never load "defense/hunting" rounds without weighing each charge. Neither area is a place where I want an unknown loaded.

I've posted pictures of the top strap of my M28 that didn't have any flame cutting until I shot 5 rounds loaded with H110. I have used 125s in it since 1972, but I always use a single based flake powder.

 

[Paul5388]

A lot of people are of the Elmer Keith persuasion that slow and big are the ideal solution to hunting bullets. Granted, a big slow bullet will punch a caliber sized hole through the target, but to illustrate fast and light, here's the entrance hole on the doe I shot today with a 7mm Mag 140 gr at 150 yards. Some may consider these images to be graphic, so scroll down a bit.

This is the exit hole.

Those holes are bigger than a silver dollar, so there isn't any way to compare a caliber sized hole leaking blood and letting in air with this. The doe went 15 yards from where she was shot and died from massive hemorrhage (the heart wasn't hit).

To bring this to bear on the discussion, those heavy .38 slugs may punch a hole through the intended target, but they won't do what a 125 gr will do, if it has a respectable amount of velocity to make it expand. The threshold for expansion has traditionally been set at 1000 fps, but 1200 fps has a much better chance for expansion. That's why the weenie loads being published today aren't effective.

If a short barrel won't generate enough velocity with a 125 (and it probably won't unless you get up to around 10-11 gr of SR 4756 in .38 Special brass which is a max Speer #8 load and should be used with caution) a heavy 158-170 gr bullet is a better bet.