Bill of Sale

[ColbyBruce]

We have a local forum here in GA that I peruse for entertainment, mostly. Many of the members there are pro open carry and anti BOS type people. Occasionally I list guns for sale on that site, and sold a 9mm Star pistol off the site two years ago. The buyer turned out to be a friend of a friend's B-I-L, a rigid anti BOS type. I let it slide, as I was familiar with him through Scouts and rec league sports.

The friend of a friend stopped by here a half hour ago wanting a BOS because the buyer had sold the gun a year ago, it was stolen from that person and recovered, but he had no proof of ownership. This was not local mind you, the gun was recovered outside of Savannah, GA. I told him "no", the BOS was rejected by the man I sold the Star to, and I knew nothing of the other man.

 

[JJEH]

Love it or hate it, but I only sell a personal gun with a bill of sale. I need to protect myself and my business. If things go south I have proof that I sold it. On the other hand, the new owner has proof of ownership.

I don't want your DL#, but I want a name, address and phone# on that paper.

 

[Smoke]

I think this is one of those topics that people just split into two camps on and neither side is going to convince the other to change.

All a bill of sale proves is that I have Windows Office on my computer. I don't have a choice anymore since I live in Colorado but if I was that concerned about proving I sold a gun I'd have the sale go through an FFL.

 

[zzzippper]

I think this is one of those topics that people just split into two camps on and neither side is going to convince the other to change.

All a bill of sale proves is that I have Windows Office on my computer. I don't have a choice anymore since I live in Colorado but if I was that concerned about proving I sold a gun I'd have the sale go through an FFL.

A BOS a year or two after the fact is BS, especially since the BIL declined the offer of one. JMHO, AOK? BFN PIR.

I'm in CO, back when I first came here private sales were perfectly legal, your only requirement was a resonable expectation that the person could legally own the gun. I sold a gun, I took a look at his DL license and made a mental note of his car license plate and jotted them down when I got home. Trust, but verify.

 

[Alpo]

Need a bill of sale to prove ownership.

Really? So if my 22 rifle - the one I was given for my birthday 40 years ago - is stolen, but then the thief is caught, I can't get it back because I have no bill of sale?

If I call the cops and say, "Stolen gun. S&W Model 28-2, 4" barrel, blue, adjustable sights, Pachmyar grips, caliber 38 WCF, SN Sxxxxxx", and they get it back, I can't get it back because I have no proof it's mine? I described it to a T, including the serial number and the little fact that it was no longer the original caliber. And they need piece of paper?

I heard they do that crud in New Orleans, but Georgia????

 

[Marine Corps Air]

Love it or hate it, but I only sell a personal gun with a bill of sale. I need to protect myself and my business. If things go south I have proof that I sold it. On the other hand, the new owner has proof of ownership.

I don't want your DL#, but I want a name, address and phone# on that paper.

+1 for Jorge.

If I sell a firearm to someone and that buyer lends or transfers it to someone else ("straw man"), who can not legally own a firearm, and that person later commits a felony, I want to be able to document (in writing) the person that legally purchased the firearm from me.

As a buyer I need that BOS to document the fact that I legally own the firearm, and to document the price that I paid for it for my insurance company.

This won't be of value to any forum member who opposes the use of a BOS, but here's the explanation that I have had to send to several sellers to help them better understand why a BOS is required:

"A bill of sale has been defined as a legal document made by the seller to a purchaser, reporting that on a specific date at a specific locality and for a particular sum of money or other value received, the seller sold to the purchaser a specific item of personal property, or parcel of real property of which he had lawful possession and ownership."

In essence, a bill of sale is a written instrument showing the voluntary transfer of a right or interest or title to personal property, either by way of security or absolutely, from one person to another with the actual physical possession of the property leaving the previous owner and being delivered to the other party (the buyer)."

 

[Smoke]

Again, if it's that big of a deal why not just have an FFL do the transfer?

Like I said before since I'm in Colorado it's now Machs Nix to me I have to do the transfer through a FFL but some of the BS I hear about getting a BOS is ridiculous. I'm not giving you my driver's license number, you don't need my address. If those are your requirements find another buyer

 

[ColbyBruce]

My answer, and phone number, were passed on to the unlucky fellow who lost the gun. He called me, practically demanding I provide him a BOS or my original BOS and suggested it would be easier for me to pick it up in person. He said he would pass on my contact info to the agency holding his gun and let them deal with me. Huh? He was still babbling when I hung up on him.

Good luck sport, LOL!!

 

[A10]

Unfortunately, all my firearms were lost in a tragic boating accident several years ago. I have no bill of sale for the event.......

 

[old bear]

No B.O.S. is a deal breaker either way, I buy I want one, I sell I want one. It's a matter of C.M.A. It's sad that it has to be that way, BUT.

 

[Smoke]

My answer, and phone number, were passed on to the unlucky fellow who lost the gun. He called me, practically demanding I provide him a BOS or my original BOS and suggested it would be easier for me to pick it up in person. He said he would pass on my contact info to the agency holding his gun and let them deal with me. Huh? He was still babbling when I hung up on him.

Good luck sport, LOL!!

I'd be bent if someone gave my phone number to an unknown third party

 

[ColbyBruce]

I'd be bent if someone gave my phone number to an unknown third party

I agree, that is why I have a burner phone, to use for transactions off the local forum. The person that stopped by here dropped a nickel S&W 10 that belonged to me, back in 2011. He was playing with it, after having been asked to put it down. He had to buy it. He has held a grudge ever since.

 

[357-RevolverGuy]

Easily could have been fixed for that guy if he had a simple BOS. I have sold and traded guns and always require we fill one out. I see it as a form of liability and it only takes a few minutes. I fill everything out except our addresses because I don't want someone showing up at my doorstep. But I do check and make sure addresses match up to proper ID before we fill anything out.

 

[Aticus]

Again, if it's that big of a deal why not just have an FFL do the transfer?

Like I said before since I'm in Colorado it's now Machs Nix to me I have to do the transfer through a FFL but some of the BS I hear about getting a BOS is ridiculous. I'm not giving you my driver's license number, you don't need my address. If those are your requirements find another buyer

Be assured, sir, I would.

In Missouri there is no prohibition on the private sale of firearms as long as the seller is reasonably sure the buyer can legally own the firearm. If I know the buyer I simply note his name and address in my records. If I don't it goes through an FFL. You don't want to do that, find another seller.

 

[Smoke]

Those that require a BOS do you make that clear before the sale or do you wait till they show up and then tell them?

 

[Marine Corps Air]

Those that require a BOS do you make that clear before the sale or do you wait till they show up and then tell them?

This is an excellent question, especially if the seller is against providing a BOS and the buyer insists on receiving one as a condition of the purchase. It could really become a tenuous situation if a buyer did not make this requirement clear early on in the discussions (questions to seller) and sought to cancel the purchase because the seller refused to provide a BOS. The attorney forum members may know for sure, but I'm not sure that a buyer can refuse to buy for this reason alone.

This has always been a key, pre-sale question for me right along with the condition of the firearm, etc. before I write that binding statement to the seller - "I'll take it".

 

[Smoke]

I don't object to a BOS as such as long as I know beforehand. What I don't like is when the seller all of a sudden drops "I need to make a copy of your driver's license for the BOS" on me.

No, you don't. I'm not about to hand everything needed to steal my identity to some random stranger.

I've said it 2 0r 3 times and I'll say it again if you're that worried meet me at the LGS and we'll have the FFL do the transfer.

 

[JJEH]

Those that require a BOS do you make that clear before the sale or do you wait till they show up and then tell them?

Communication is the key! No one wants surprises when you meet for a transfer. Especially not if someone drove an hour or more.

 

[Rule3]

Heck all you need (and you really do not need it) Is I Rule 3 sold a Model x SW serial #12345 to Joe Blow, a Fla resident on whatever date.
Sign, sign
Thats' it, done.

After the fact forget about it.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Those that require a BOS do you make that clear before the sale or do you wait till they show up and then tell them?

Yes, I did have the BOS requirement in the ad on the local forum, I do that on all my ads just to see how many negative comments that generates. It also discourages potential buyers covered in prison tattoos, though I have met two such people.