Bit of a weird range outing tonight

[xopher88x]

I'm posting this in the lounge because I don't feel I have a "real" technical issue that would warrant a post in the semi-auto forum... It's more of an annoyance I think that will hopefully be cleared up during my next range visit.

Gonna try to keep it short but we'll see. I've had a 3" Pro Series 1911 for about a year now and the thing has been incredibly reliable (and accurate). It's been my main/favorite carry piece since I bought it. For all the talk you hear about how 3" 1911s don't run, you'd never know it based on Smith's version. I've got probably close to 1000 rounds through it over the course of 9, or 10 range sessions. I don't really know for certain. I shoot about 100 rounds through it per session and call it good.

Tonight it absolutely choked hard on Winchester White Box 230 grain (the 100 round Value Pack, Wal-Mart). I had about 75 rounds of Federal and Remington that I was shooting up first, flawlessly of course. Then I loaded up the WWB and bang, jam. Failure to extract. Every. Single. Time. And with all mags. Not that mags can cause extraction issues but after that first jam I instantly became methodical in my actions. I found some more Federal ammo in my range bag and get this... In the 7 round mags I was randomly loading 6 Federals with 1 of the "bad" Winchester rounds mixed in. The darn Winchesters failed to extract every single time. I didn't have enough Federal to be able put the Winchester at every position of the mag, but I think I have enough evidence to believe that for some reason, my gun did not like these particular rounds.

Of the estimated 1000 rounds though the pistol I'd say half have been WWB with no issues. So what the heck? Did I get a box from a different (meaning, slightly out of spec) lot? I have some WWB that's about a year old and I can't wait to get back to the range to see if the problem exists with that stuff. After cleaning tonight I did replace my recoil spring, just for kicks. They ship two extras in the box with these little blasters so I figured after a year and about 1000 rounds maybe that's a good idea. Can a weak recoil spring cause extraction issues with certain ammo? Or should I just relax because sometimes these issues are just as simple as bad ammo? Carrying a revolver in the near-term until I can get back to the range with the 3 incher.

 

[Xfuzz]

Kinda ups the pucker factor don't it...
I'd stick with six for sure banger until you hash out
the bottom feeders problemo.

 

[Dragon88]

Do you have access to a chrony? You could try running the "bad" WWB 230gr across a chrony to get a velocity reading, then compare that to a "good" lot of WWB or the other ammo you are using. Velocity is not the end all be all, but at least you would have some data points. Could be this lot is loaded a little weaker. I did notice that Winchester lists a lower velocity on this load than Federal 230gr ball, though not by much.

I have nothing but love for my 3" 1911 (a Kimber). I do not have free rain with loads in this pistol, 185gr is a no-go and light 230gr handloads choke as well. But full velocity ball ammo and carry ammo runs 100%. It also happens to be one of the most accurate semi-autos I own, despite the short barrel and sight radius. 3" 1911s are great carry pieces.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Just a guess, but I'd say that you got some ammo that wasn't loaded "hot enough" to extract with enough authority. If it was me, I'd leave the original spring in to prove the point, as a week spring would present more of a chambering problem, I would guess. The fact that it worked flawless with two other flavors would tell the tale for me. Maybe you should consider loading your own, .45ACP would be a good one to start on, in my view. Flapjack.

 

[HotRoderX]

I blame the WWB lately on another forum there have been several issues with WWB in several different calibers.

People have seen things such as

Bullet upside down in the case
Bullet seated to deep
Shell Casing dented/torn
Double Charge
No Powder

I know personally I got a box of 38special +P WWB that had deformed rims on them.

I have also gotten a box of WWB 9mm ammo that was extremely under powered and had varying bullet heights.

 

[photoman]

WWB ammo has had its share of known problems going on five years now. They tried overseas manufacturing and that was the beginning of the problems. I think the recent production is US but I'm still hearing about a lot of problems with it. I know the brass in all of the .38 Special +P I've shot is junk and I don't reload it.

 

[Frank46]

Well take this for what it's worth, but sellier & bellot did say in their ads that they do or did load ammunition for some U.S. companies. Having said this I have a buddy that raves about their 45acp hardball in his 45's.
WW did at one time have some white box 5.56mm loaded for them as I recall seeing made in Israel printed on the box. Frank

 

[Fishinfool]

Frankly, I have had no issues with WW White Box 45 acp, and have shot a lot of it over the years. That said, it could be a bad box - it happens with anything man made. It could also be a round that is marginal in your pistol, becoming un-reliable as your spring wears, and changes the cycling / timing of your pistol. I know in my Kimber 3 inch, the factory recommends regulator spring changes for reliability.

I would change that spring, then try the WW again, see how it functions. You may end up having to switch to another brand, though your prior reliability with this ammo may very well return with another lot # / spring change.

Larry

 

[KPSqured]

A while back, I took my newly acquired 4506 to the range and had some problems.

Range Trip Part I

Bottom line, I was getting many failures to extract (FTE) with Winchester White Box (WWB) 230 grain.

I took the pistol home, took out the extractor, cleaned out the extractor cutout, and examined the extractor. The extractor didn't look damaged in any way.

A few weekends later, I took the pistol back to the range. I shot 60 rounds of WWB and 200 rounds of Federal 230 grain target ammunition.

1. Fired 50 rounds of Federal No malfunctions of any kind. Done 5 rounds at a time.

2. Fired 60 rounds of WWB. I had 10 FTE. Done 5 rounds at a time.

3. Fired 150 rounds of Federal. Had no malfunctions of any kind. Fired 5 or 8 rounds at a time.

I used the same mag throughout firing.

I have never had any problems with WWB before, but I've only fired that in SIG P220 and Colt 1911s...but maybe the two boxes I used had some rounds at the high end of tolerance.

I was happy that the pistol fired with 100% reliability with the Federal.

I have resprung the pistol since that range trip, all new S&W factory springs, but unfortunately not fired the pistol since. I will try WWB with it next time I take it to the range.

I did take my newly acquired 4586 to the range last weekend and shot 100 rounds of WWB with not one problem.

 

[xopher88x]

UPDATE

I finally was able to take the 3" Pro Series back to the range tonight. All's right with the world again. I fired an older box of WWB 100 round value pack, flawless, and about 75 Federal FMJ (the Wal-Mart stuff with the small primer) again flawless. I did not fire any of the ammo in the offending box. I'll shoot that stuff in something else. I replaced the recoil spring before going. The old spring was sporting about 1000 rounds. Time for a change maybe. They give you two extras in the box when you buy one of these little cannons. I'm going to call Smith in the AM and get a couple more. Cheap insurance.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

Xopher, do you happen to still have the boxes the offending ammo came in? I have two boxes of the WWB from Wally's and would be interested to see if the carton numbers are similar before I run them through my 457.

 

[xopher88x]

I do still have it. I'll try to get some pictures of the identifying numbers on it.