British contract 2nd Model HE with d&t - need help!

[pdcrig]

So, I'm trying to help a family member liquidate inventory from their gun shop as they just can't do the business anymore due to health issues. He has lots of things to offload. There are several firearms that he believes are very special due to their age and background but without letters or significant provenance they're really just another example. But no one can convince him.
That brings me to this British contract HE in .455 caliber. Timing and lockup are great for this example, but everything else is a detraction. You can see from the attached photos. The biggest issue for me is the drill and tap on the top strap. Can anyone confirm that this was ever an option for the Brits or the HE in general? I highly doubt it but it's possible. I assume it was done much more recently. I'm afraid he's going expect way too much for this but I can't imagine it being worth more than $600 in it's current condition.
Any info or advice would be welcome.
I'll be asking questions about other, newer revolvers in other threads.

 

[handejector]

It has an old, low to medium quality reblue.
The holes on top are NOT original.
It appears to have had the rear of the cylinder shaved for moonclips and 45 ACP ammo. If there is no serial number on back of cylinder, it confirms that it was shaved.
It is wearing K frame grips form the wrong decade.
If I was hunting one, I would not pay $500 for that one.

 

[cgt4570]

-It's been heavily buffed, and refinished, as evidenced by the large gap around the sideplate, and weak stamps.
-It's wearing K frame grips from after WW1.
-It looks like the face of the cylinder has been milled to allow for it to shoot .45acp (or .45 Auto Rim), based on the space between the cylinder face and cylinder frame lug.
-No, the holes in the top strap did not come from the factory. Someone drilled and tapped it for a scope or sight at some point.

Bottom line, it's definitely NOT a $600 gun at this point.
Maybe $250-300?

 

[pdcrig]

Thanks guys. I was wondering about the chambering and grips. Now I know. Yes, the back of the cylinder has been shaved. My father in law acknowledged that. But he insists that he has a letter that says the d&t is factory. I told him I need to see that letter.
I'm also disappointed that the lanyard ring is missing.

 

[OutAtTheEdge]

Thanks guys. I was wondering about the chambering and grips. Now I know. Yes, the back of the cylinder has been shaved. My father in law acknowledged that. But he insists that he has a letter that says the d&t is factory. I told him I need to see that letter.
I'm also disappointed that the lanyard ring is missing.

I think it's safe to say that we would ALL like to see that letter.

 

[glowe]

Sorry, but what is d&t? A proper 455 British Hand Ejector is below complete with factory stocks.

 

[pdcrig]

Sorry, but what is d&t? A proper 455 British Hand Ejector is below complete with factory stocks.

D&T means drilled and tapped. The two screws on top of the frame probably shouldn't be there. Why anyone in their right would do this to a 2nd model HE is beyond me.
Agreed, it does need proper grips. And lanyard ring.

 

[glowe]

Original factory lanyard rings are available on gunpartscorp.com, and K frame and N frame lanyard rings are the same size.

 

[gunbarrel]

So, I'm trying to help a family member liquidate inventory from their gun shop as they just can't do the business anymore due to health issues. He has lots of things to offload. There are several firearms that he believes are very special due to their age and background but without letters or significant provenance they're really just another example. But no one can convince him.

And you won't convince him, even if brought him a letter hand-written by Daniel Wesson, himself telling him otherwise. He doesn't really want to sell his treasures.

It reminds me of some of the old gun dealers that have been coming to our Club's gun shows for 25-30 years setting up their tables with the same firearms year after year with ridiculous prices on them. They just want to talk about them and tell everyone how valuable they are. And By Golly, if you wantto have to buy that gun from me, you are going to pay me 5x what it's worth. I heard one said "It's not eating anything; so, it's not like I have to feed him" ))

Your best bet is to sell what he lets you sell, and wait for him to pass. Then, you can help the family liquidate what's left. Should the family need the money badly right now, you would have to prove that he is unable to make rational decisions, and go through a lawyer to designate someone to make the right decisions on behalf of the family, but that would be heart-breaking and an absolute last result. That is this 70-year old guy's humble opinion, FWIW.

 

[gunbarrel]

BTW, I could be wrong, but had it just been re-blued by S&W, it would still lose some of its collector's value, but not all.

In this case, I don't really think that drilling & tapping that old soldier, and shaving the cylinder matters who did it, unless it was done at the request of an important figure for a specific reason (like TR had it done in case he dropped the revolver in the Amazon River while caiman hunting, or something like that...)

 

[pdcrig]

I think we're all on the same page. Thanks guys.
He's got lots of cool, old stuff but I doubt any of it's really valuable. Just collectable and shootable.
I'll keep y'all posted.

 

[Alk8944]

When I read the title to this thread I too wondered what OP meant by D&T, because I didn't think he could even possibly have meant the common definition of drilled and tapped for this revolver! Obviously he did. What a shame. I wouldn't want that gun at any price, even though I have wanted a .455 Second Model for many, many years.

 

[glowe]

BTW, I could be wrong, but had it just been re-blued by S&W, it would still lose some of its collector's value, but not all . . .

Disagree. If you are a collector, once a category of collecting has been established, percent finish is the single most important feature that attracts buyers. Higher condition, more money. Exception is that factory refinishes with stars and date stamps seem to hold value better than gunsmith jobs due in part to the quality of the refinish. Collectors typically do not buy refinished guns unless the gun is rare and seldom seen. The term accumulator comes up often and I assume it means buying in quantity without regard to originality or condition. Any S&W has value, but if refinished there is zero original finish, so how does one value that is the question??

 

[Jack Flash]

The butt swivel is the least of that gun's worries.

Too many strikes against that one; if I was looking for one, I would keep looking.

 

[alwslate]

If mechanically sound might be a good truck gun for $300

 

[DWalt]

Just a shooter grade revolver. I would go close to, if not below, the low end of the value estimates provided. Way too much baggage.

 

[pdcrig]

I was thinking it would make a neat project gun for someone. Maybe convert over to a .44 special with a shorter barrel. Or maybe just shorten the barrel and keep it 45 ACP. But I have no interest in spending the money or the time.

 

[DWalt]

About as creative as I would get is maybe shortening the barrel. And I would have to think hard about the wisdom of doing that.

 

[Jack Flash]

If you could get it cheap enough, and you can reload for the .45 Auto Rim (or .45 ACP with moon clips), maybe you could salvage this as a shooter. You would definitely want to keep pressures mild.

The K-Frame stocks could be sold to finance some N-Frame stocks that would at least be comfortable if not "correct". Rather than cutting down the barrel, it might be better to find a shorter barrel (say off an M1917) and sell the current barrel to someone who is doing a restoration. Otherwise, just keep the current barrel.

If the current owner thinks this one is worth a lot, he is not thinking clearly. Maybe you should just let him handle it himself. If you sell it for a real-world price, he may think you conspired to rip him off. Why put yourself in the middle of that?

 

[pdcrig]

If you could get it cheap enough, and you can reload for the .45 Auto Rim (or .45 ACP with moon clips), maybe you could salvage this as a shooter. You would definitely want to keep pressures mild.

The K-Frame stocks could be sold to finance some N-Frame stocks that would at least be comfortable if not "correct". Rather than cutting down the barrel, it might be better to find a shorter barrel (say off an M1917) and sell the current barrel to someone who is doing a restoration. Otherwise, just keep the current barrel.

If the current owner thinks this one is worth a lot, he is not thinking clearly. Maybe you should just let him handle it himself. If you sell it for a real-world price, he may think you conspired to rip him off. Why put yourself in the middle of that?

I very much like all these ideas. If it were mine I'd consider your suggestions. But since it's not mine, I'm letting him handle it all.