Browning A-5 SBS

NKJ nut

NKJ nut

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I recently completed my latest project. A long recoil operated SBS based on a Browning A-5 "Light Twelve".


It started out as a refinished gun with a "dog knot" on the bbl. After getting back my Form one I shortened the bbl. to 14 inches and the stock to 12" LOP. The original horn buttplate was still in place but had some slight worm damage so I found a later vintage buttplate to work down to correct dimensions. Then I put the horn buttplate back for another gun that may need it. NFA marking requirements were then accomplished using Brownell's letter punches.

I have recently put about 200 rds through it. Function was flawless.

The gun is a blast to shoot and will put a lot of buckshot on target in a hurry.

BTW, this is a legal NFA weapon. Cost: $350 for the basic shotgun. $200 for the tax stamp. No charge for the labor. Joy of doing the work and owning it...priceless;):D

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Please explain what NFA markings were required and where did you put them. Also why did you shorten the stock to 12"?? I would love to do that to an old non collector grade A-5 barrel but I would probably leave my stock alone. That would be the catz nutz as far as a quick shooting defense shotgun is concerned.
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
Please explain what NFA markings were required and where did you put them. Also why did you shorten the stock to 12"?? I would love to do that to an old non collector grade A-5 barrel but I would probably leave my stock alone. That would be the catz nutz as far as a quick shooting defense shotgun is concerned.
Click to expand...

When a conversion like this is done it changes the firearm from Title I to Title II status. The name and address of the new "maker" has to be marked on the receiver of the firearm. In this case that would be me.

I shortened the stock to make the gun more compact, and it really doesn't handicap my shooting. Of course I can understand someone not wanting to shorten the stock. Which BTW it is not all that easy to work down the buttplate and refit it. And the buttplate has a slight curve to it so the stock cut has to have the same curve. But I wanted it shortened and I did not want a recoil pad because of the tendency of rubber pads to sometimes bind on clothing.
 
peyton said:
Looks good, what is a "dog knot"??
Click to expand...

A dog knot is one of those ugly choke devices that used to be added to shotguns. They worked, but they looked like heck to many of us and detract from the value of the gun. I mentioned it and the fact this shotgun had been refinished, so someone wouldn't think I destroyed a valuable collectors item.
 
So If I were to buy a barrel cut it down to 14" I would not need anything unless I put it on my A-5. At that time it would become a titleII weapon and unless I had the permit and labled the gun, I would be in violation of Federal Law? Correct?
Next question:
What constitures proper markings? Just my name?? (nevermind this one I just re read your post)
Next question:
If Joe da gunsmith cut the barrel would his name have to be listed as the "manufacturer" or would it still be me as I was the assembler?
Not meaning to sound smart assesdbut this intrigues me-I really like your gun.
 
I love it! Shortening the LOP helps in close quarter maneuvering as well as eliminating the possibility of the stock hanging up on clothing or whatever. By changing the mass of the barrel that much, have you had to do anything different with the friction ring setup? Looks like you have just enough barrel left to compress it and loosen the barreel nut...beautiful workmanship on a platform most tend to leave alone.
 
Sir, neat rig. Reminds me of Clyde Barrow's "whippet" guns.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
So If I were to buy a barrel cut it down to 14" I would not need anything unless I put it on my A-5. At that time it would become a titleII weapon and unless I had the permit and labled the gun, I would be in violation of Federal Law? Correct?
Next question:
What constitures proper markings? Just my name?? (nevermind this one I just re read your post)
Next question:
If Joe da gunsmith cut the barrel would his name have to be listed as the "manufacturer" or would it still be me as I was the assembler?
Not meaning to sound smart assesdbut this intrigues me-I really like your gun.
Click to expand...

Having a 14 inch bbl. and a gun that it would fit on and no paperwork could be considered constructive possession. That's why I have resisted the temptation to have a second bbl. of the same length with a vent rib and screw in chokes. I own other A-5's which are Title I guns.

ATF marking requirements are that the markings must be at least 1/16 inch and have a minimum depth of .003.

You could get Joe the Gunsmith to cut your bbl. but you would still be the manufacturer. The Form one is an "application to make and register a firearm". You are the one who the gun will be registered to so you are listed as the manufacturer even if Joe the Gunsmith did part of the work or your neighbor Billy Bob. A sale of the gun would require a Form 4. In all cases the gun is registered to the owner.

In the case of individuals registering an NFA weapon, The Form one is your registration.
 
As I told Jessie when he sent me these pics a few weeks ago, Lone Wolf McQuade would be proud! I want one, only I believe I'd shorten the stock even more.

BTW, Peyton: The term "dog knot" derives from the peculiarly placed prostate gland swelling at the base of a dog's penis. Some of us old-timers use the term to refer to any unsightly protrusion on an otherwise aesthetically pleasing device, such as the old external choke devices Jessie removed when he shortened the barrel. "Poly Choke" was the most common one.
 
Jst1mr said:
... By changing the mass of the barrel that much, have you had to do anything different with the friction ring setup? Looks like you have just enough barrel left to compress it and loosen the barreel nut...beautiful workmanship on a platform most tend to leave alone.
Click to expand...

No I haven't changed anything as far as the friction ring setting. Except to put the pieces back together correctly. Like many used A-5's I have encountered the parts of the friction assembly were not properly assembled on this gun. Most malfunctions of A-5's are because of either incorrect setting of the friction ring and band or incorrect assembly. You will tend to get malfunctions on any A-5 if for example the split in the bronze friction piece and the split in the steel band around it do not match. The whole assembly tends to grab the magazine tube rather than slide on it. Set it up right and these guns work regardless of bbl. length.

On this gun I put just enough oil on the sliding surface of the mag. tube that I get reliable ejection even if the gun isn't shouldered.

As for disassembly; you are correct. There is just enough room to push down slightly on the bbl. to loosen the nut.
 
I like it... I saw a very similar but well used one a few years back at a butcher shop where they did live kills... I commented on it and the owner said it was for the occasional non cooperative cow... I mentioned "paperwork" and he looked at me like I was nutz...
 
tallpaul said:
I like it... I saw a very similar but well used one a few years back at a butcher shop where they did live kills... I commented on it and the owner said it was for the occasional non cooperative cow... I mentioned "paperwork" and he looked at me like I was nutz...
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Some folks just don't understand that there is more to it than just using a hacksaw. Violations of NFA are very serious.

I would encourage anyone contemplating bypassing the law to think twice. A $200 tax stamp and a piece of paper are a piece of cake compared to getting caught with an illegal NFA item.
 
Very nice looking and interesting! What is the weight? I imagine still somewhere around 5 pounds? They were stout to begin with.
 
that thing is FREAKING COOL ! a serious home defense rig ! ok. im goona seriously look into doing mine.

my old beater A5 that i got for $150 is cut to 18.5 inches and the buttstock is standard, but i could go a few more inches and keep it legal ( for now). i too want to cut it down as short as yours and have a metal or hard plasatic butt plate to avoid binding.

It is my understanding that even in commie PRK, a SBS can be made by way of a special trust and a C&R gun only (my A5 dates to 1920's) and the tax stamp of course. your finished product is so awesome!!

Can you send the barrel to Briley and have a screw-in choke made or is it too wide at 14 inches ? how does it pattern otherwise ?

what is your total overall length ?

what did you do to "custom mark" the receiver ? or do you mark the barrel or both ?

Tim
 
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rimfired said:
Very nice looking and interesting! What is the weight? I imagine still somewhere around 5 pounds? They were stout to begin with.
Click to expand...

The weight is 6.8 lbs. empty. With 5 rds. of Nobelsport magnum buckshot it up the weight to 7.4 lbs.

ElToro said:
that thing is FREAKING COOL ! a serious home defense rig ! ok. im goona seriously look into doing mine.

my old beater A5 that i got for $150 is cut to 18.5 inches and the buttstock is standard, but i could go a few more inches and keep it legal ( for now). i too want to cut it down as short as yours and have a metal or hard plasatic butt plate to avoid binding.

It is my understanding that even in commie PRK, a SBS can be made by way of a special trust and a C&R gun only (my A5 dates to 1920's) and the tax stamp of course. your finished product is so awesome!!

Can you send the barrel to Briley and have a screw-in choke made or is it too wide at 14 inches ? how does it pattern otherwise ?

what is your total overall length ?

what did you do to "custom mark" the receiver ? or do you mark the barrel or both ?

Tim
Click to expand...

In states that allow SBS, it can be done on a Form 1. AFTER the tax stamped paper is sent back to you.

OAL is 31 inches. I am sure it could be fitted with choke tubes of one brand or another, As it is it gives a wide open pattern but will still keep most pellets in the chest area of a sillywet at 20 yds, using the ammo mentioned before. Other loads would tighten it up some but for me it is a close range weapon anyway and I prefer the spread. I will only have choke tubes installed if I decide to use it for hunting. Even at that it has already accounted for a couple of running rabbits (LOL)

The marking requirements are per NFA regulations. I marked the gun with my name and address on the receiver. Just like any manufacturer does.

you mentioned the Barrow gun. Those probably had a 15 to 17 inch bbl, by my guess is they had a shorter stock than mine. B&C were very little people. Also their guns were Remington Model 11's which are heavier and also lacked the speed loading feature of post war Brownings.
 
It took 5 months and a few days, to get the tax stamped Form 1 back. There is a tremendous back log at the NFA branch of BATFE.

BTW, a big THANK YOU to each of you for the compliments!!

I would be delighted to assist any of you who are unsure of the process. It requires a Form 1 if you are going to do the work on a gun you already own. For an individual it also requires a sign off by the CLEO and submission of fingerprint cards. And don't forget to return a filled out "Certificate Of Compliance" along with a check for $200. Then you send it all in and sit back and wait.

The wait is the worst part, but it does allow you time to dream up your next project (LOL)
 
Great pics, I have something similar in mind for my coach gun.
Take it down to between a 12 and 14" barrel and a couple of inches off the stock.


Jim
 
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