Browning Automatic 5 12guage (1936) Photos and Questions

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VaTom

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A close friend stopped by a couple of evenings ago. He wanted me to check out and give some information on a shotgun that years ago belonged to his dad that recently came back into the family. My friend is a "car guy" and not a "gun guy". Short story is that a family friend bought it from his Dad sixty years ago. Recently he was contacted by the elderly gentleman who wanted the shotgun to go back to the original family. Offered it to the family for what he paid for it 60 years ago. $100.

It is a beautiful Browning Auto 5 made by FN in 1936 per serial number. I did some research online about these for my buddy. There are a few questions. There are a number of stampings on the barrel and receiver. I know some are assembly marks and possibly proof marks. I have attached pictures-some arent very clear. Any additional information that I can pass on would be appreciated as well as value in todays market. Thanks as always!
 

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The potential buyer doesn't have a grip on reality. I have a Browning A5 that was produced in Belgium in the 1930's that my father left me. It still shoots great and has two barrels. Just calculating inflation, that one hundred bucks in 1961 equals $893.00 today!
 
You’ve been handed what John Browning thought was his most successful design. Your Auto 5 is a fairly typical standard example and the markings are all as they should be. They are, as you suggest, assembly marks and proof marks. The gun itself isn’t particularly rare, but it is an instant family heirloom that you should be proud to own and cherish. $100 is stone cold theft these days for a shotgun like this one.

Your gun has a cracked fore-end. This is quite common for this design and can be repaired easily by someone who understands how to repair these. Recommendation: please, at a minimum, replace the recoil spring and action spring. These are available new from Midwest Gun Works. The gun will thank you by being a soft shooter-it’s surprising how changing these springs will tame recoil. They arent meant to kick like mules. Properly sprung they are soft and gentle shooters.

Regarding value, this depends on lots of things, including geographic location and target audience (who might want to buy it). Where I live all auto 5’s seem to be priced at $650 and up, regardless of condition. It’s nutty and not real. Also, the guns have a following that is dwindling now, as newer shooters gravitate to gas guns and “inertia” guns. These old-timers need care and maintenance that lots of people just dont want to give.

Anyway, given the stock repair needed, I’d pay about $400 to $450 for it if the bore were in good shape. Maybe a bit more if the barrel length and choke are desirable.
 
BE Mike said:
The potential buyer doesn't have a grip on reality. I have a Browning A5 that was produced in Belgium in the 1930's that my father left me. It still shoots great and has two barrels. Just calculating inflation, that one hundred bucks in 1961 equals $893.00 today!
Click to expand...

The older man who bought it from the dad sixty years ago paid the Dad $100 back then and recently offered it to the original family for $100 which they gladly paid.
 
Orig bbl will be ser#d to the action.
Bbl ser# is (usually) stamped on the left side of the 'magazine ring' up close to the bbl itself. Take the forend off to see the bbl ser#.

Original recoil spring (the one that fits around the mag tube) used spring wire that was of full round profile.
Sometime later, and I can't recall when, maybe post WW2,,they changed that spring wire to a flat sided profile.

The early guns like this you have to push the bolt release button on the side of the frame to allow the carrier to unlock and lower to load shells into the magazine.
They changed that carrier to a so called 2-piece design in the early 50's I believe. That allowed simpler loading by not demanding that the bolt release button be depressed to lower the carrier. Just push the shell down and into the magazine.

I like the early A5's... Just plain polished rust blued frames. None of the border wriggle engraving of the later models.
 
2152hq said:
Orig bbl will be ser#d to the action.
Bbl ser# is (usually) stamped on the left side of the 'magazine ring' up close to the bbl itself. Take the forend off to see the bbl ser#.

Original recoil spring (the one that fits around the mag tube) used spring wire that was of full round profile.
Sometime later, and I can't recall when, maybe post WW2,,they changed that spring wire to a flat sided profile.

The early guns like this you have to push the bolt release button on the side of the frame to allow the carrier to unlock and lower to load shells into the magazine.
They changed that carrier to a so called 2-piece design in the early 50's I believe. That allowed simpler loading by not demanding that the bolt release button be depressed to lower the carrier. Just push the shell down and into the magazine.

I like the early A5's... Just plain polished rust blued frames. None of the border wriggle engraving of the later models.
Click to expand...

Yes - I figured the bolt release to load process out while I was looking at it. Don't quite understand purpose and use of the magazine shut off lever (think that is what it is called) on the left side of the receiver?
 
Justin T said:
You’ve been handed what John Browning thought was his most successful design. Your Auto 5 is a fairly typical standard example and the markings are all as they should be. They are, as you suggest, assembly marks and proof marks. The gun itself isn’t particularly rare, but it is an instant family heirloom that you should be proud to own and cherish. $100 is stone cold theft these days for a shotgun like this one.

Your gun has a cracked fore-end. This is quite common for this design and can be repaired easily by someone who understands how to repair these. Recommendation: please, at a minimum, replace the recoil spring and action spring. These are available new from Midwest Gun Works. The gun will thank you by being a soft shooter-it’s surprising how changing these springs will tame recoil. They arent meant to kick like mules. Properly sprung they are soft and gentle shooters.

Regarding value, this depends on lots of things, including geographic location and target audience (who might want to buy it). Where I live all auto 5’s seem to be priced at $650 and up, regardless of condition. It’s nutty and not real. Also, the guns have a following that is dwindling now, as newer shooters gravitate to gas guns and “inertia” guns. These old-timers need care and maintenance that lots of people just dont want to give.

Anyway, given the stock repair needed, I’d pay about $400 to $450 for it if the bore were in good shape. Maybe a bit more if the barrel length and choke are desirable.
Click to expand...

Bore was shiny and no pitting. We measured the barrel and it looked to be about 30". Don't know about the choke. The left side of the barrel has a star before the 12. Did not say 12 gauge.
 
My first ‘Big Time’ New Long Gun buy was an Auto 5.
Bought it from Sears in Indianapolis.
As I have posted, my first Gun Buy was a 20 Single Shot from Sears in Memphis.
 
The one star is for full choke. 30” full choke is pretty common. Lots of those out there on guns from that period. Back then, they choked down a bit tighter than they do today. So a full choke back then might be equal to an extra full. Modified back then might be equal to full today. And so on. There’s no real standard for that. Just approximations.

If you field strip it and dismount the barrel you’ll see the gauge and chamber markings underneath. It’ll probably be stamped with 12/70mm, which just means it accepts a 2 3/4” shell.

The magazine cutoff allows you to load a shell individually without needing to use the magazine. This is good if you need to change payload in a hurry. It can also be used as an aid in safely unloading.

Sounds like this gun would be fun for trap, or taking long shots at dove or something. Since it’s a full choke, please do avoid using buckshot in it. And really, would avoid steel shot as a precaution. Limit yourself to quality lead target loads, and this gun will serve you well.
 
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I have a 1950 vintage double-shuffler. Came with a factory installed Cutts compensator as there are no choke markings on the barrel. Picked up a 26" barrel with Invector interchangeable chokes and a Buck Special slug barrel. It's a sweet shooting piece. Important thing is to have the friction rings properly set for the load you're using.
 
The gun was probably made for the European market and brought home during/after WWII. Those front trigger guard safeties are a bit funky!

I had to read your post several time. If I understand correctly, the current owner want to sell it back to your friends family for the $100 he paid for it. It’s in rough shape and is probably worth around $250-300 here in Michigan. The barrel alone would bring $100-150 at auction. Dealers might ask more for the gun, but I suspect they’d hold it for a very long time. The forearm is badly split (typical), is fairly rough and is not a gun I would want to keep.

Some of those early A5’s have short chambers (2-9/16”). It’s most common on 16 gauge guns, but there have been reports of short chambered 12 gauge guns. It probably has a 2-3/4” chamber, but I wouldn’t take it for granted. It’s marked on the barrel and is something he should check before shooting. It may have metric markings (2-1/2” or 2-9/16” = 65mm, 2-3/4” = 70mm, 3” = 75mm).

If he’s considering buying it, have him also pull the forearm and make sure all the friction rings are present. The need to be positioned correctly for the loads he’s using. I would not shoot steel shot through that gun, it can damage the barrel.

A5ringsettngs.jpg
 
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Give the gent $500 and be happy to have the shotgun back in the family. The A-5 is THE best self loading shotgun ever made, given all the considerations for use and compromises made to develop a reliable, attractive and economical design. NO shotgun produced since has been shown to be as reliable or durable. The A-5 is also the mechanically fastest running self loading shotgun extant. Exhibition shooters for Winchester showed years ago that they could outrun most all the other self loaders out there, the sole exception being the A-5 and its Remington and Savage variants. The guns are as timeless as they are functional. It was a kind gesture on that fellow's part to sell it back. j
 
FN made the A5 with that inside the trigger guard Safety right up into 1950/51.

Some of those early style Safety guns were converted to the crossbolt later style Safety by switching trigger groups. I think Browning even offered the service into the 60's.
Browning USA used to do a lot of service work. They even offered to do the conversions on the short chambered 16ga A5's to use 2 3/4" ammo.

The A5 made by Remington for FN during the WW2 period is the same Remington Model 11 shotgun but with the magazine cut-off added back in.
The Remington Mod 11 was mfg'rd w/o the magazine cut-off.
Rem mfg'd guns all use a letter prefix ser# indicating gauge.
A-16,,B-12,,C,,20ga.
Those Remington mfg made for FN will have the FN logo on the side of the frame and the ser# of the Remingtons was always on the side of the frame.
Belgian FN mfg put the ser# on the bottom ahead of the loading port (aside from a very few early FN mfg guns from the 1910 era)

The magazine cut-off does just that, engaged it cuts off the magazine supply of ammo from the gun.
The gun becomes a single shot that fires and then ejects the single fired case and leaves the bolt open and locked back.

It was handy I expect in some hunting situations of a past era. The gun was developed in 1904 or there abouts.
Most Military bolt rifles of the time were also fitted with a magazine cut-off as well. No wasted ammo was the mind set.
Discipline in shooting a field w/the 'new' semi auto shotgun may have been the thought.

I have a mid 30's 12ga A5 and an early 60's 12ga A5.
I like them both. The 30's gun is about like the OP's,,Full choke, had a crack in the FE, ect.
I shoot it at Skeet, my favorite shotgun game. Most all my shotguns are Full choke.
The 60's gun has 3 bbls. One is a 'Japanese' Browning VR bbl,,so I know those will fit.
The others are the orig plain Mod choke and a 'Deer' bbl.
 
My father passed on several Browning A-5's to my brother and I.

That particicular model is not one of my favorites, since that style of safety, is very hard on the fingers.

However it is a shooter, that will put game on the table, which is the important thing.

Have fun.
 
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