Buffalo Bore .44 +P+

[Smithslap]

During some email traffic concerning the Buffalo Bore's 340 grain .44 Magnum "+P+" concerning S&W .44 Magnum revolvers, I recieved the following email, which I've edited b/c I was asking rifle questions as well (I also received permission to use it here, and FWIW it looks like it is capable of 1350 +/- ft lbs of energy out of a 4 incher):
*******
I have a brand new SW 629 4 inch. The rounds fit with maybe 2 mm to spare in the cylinder. I have heard mixed reports on creep, blowing up the gun, etc. Your thoughts, from a safety standpoint?
Thank you.

____

The 340gr. load won't blow up any S&W N frame, but it will shoot them loose in a few hundred rounds and pre 1989 guns will shoot loose a lot faster.

Tim
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[beemerphile]

That's what Ruger Redhawks are for.

 

[Dnovo1]

I have "too many" ( per my wife) guns and collect and treasure my S&Ws most highly. However, I do agree that when it comes to being capable of soaking up punishment, that's why Bill invented the Redhawk. In addition to my 'stock' 357 and 44 Redhawks, I have a bunch of Gary Reeder's big bangers built on the Redhawk chassis, in cartridges that make a 44+P+ feel like a 22. Digests them all day long. That's why Gary and Hamilton Bowen use the Redhawk for their earth movers. Dave

 

[Maximumbob54]

The 29 is an aging design that was never meant for heavy .44 much less +P+ loadings. Smith has made efforts to keep a loved one in the game, but we keep pushing the edge out further. I'm sure the Ruger RH/SRH can take it, but I see little reason why to overload a caliber instead of stepping up to a .454, .460, or greater in a gun built from the get go to take it. Just my two cents.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I understand the "bigger is better" mentality, especially when it comes to guns. I love shooting my friend's .458 Win Mag.

What I don't understand is why people keep trying to make the .44 Magnum something that it's not...especially when there are many larger cartridges and handguns specifically designed to be an "upgrade" from the .44 Magnum.

[shrug]

I handload a 265 grain Keith bullet with EMK's original load and go well over 1350 fps with it. If that won't do the trick, obviously I need to go to a bigger caliber, not keep loading up the .44.

 

[Smithslap]

Not to get into another debate (this thread was started just to state a fact from the manufacturer on their impressive product).

I searched the forum here originally for some answers, as I was attempting to find the perfect weapon in weight and size, and the perfect caliber. I also wanted to explore the edge of the round's capability and weapon. The diversity of the six shot .44 magnum appeals to me, and the size weight of the S&W Mountain Gun is perfect, as is it being a DA/SA and easily concealable (for me) when need be.

I really don't expect to shoot hundreds of those through my Mountaing gun. More than likely, just a cylinder or two full to check POI prior to my Alaska trip.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

The .44 mag was originally entered into SAAMI at 43,500 CUP, but after so many guns (mainly pre-endurance Smiths ) started shooting loose, especially on the silhouette ranges, the pressure was lowered by SAAMI to 36,000 PSI several years ago. While PSI and Cup can't be directly crossed referrenced, the new spec is noticably lower than it was originally.

Another thing that most people don't know, or else realize, is that manufacturers of firearms strive for a 100% safety margin with their guns for normal SAAMI spec ammo to guard against an accidental overload which could cause harm, both to their guns and their customers.

That isn't an endorcement to start over loading ammo, just some simple facts. If the original 29 was designed to shoot ammo loaded to 43,500 CUP it would need to be capable of firing ammo that could reach 87,000 cup without letting go.

That's pretty impressive if you think about it.

The point of all this is that while S&W's won't take the pounding of Redhawks, they won't blow apart as easily as most guys think (and that goes doubly for the M-25's).

They will loosen up way quicker than the heavier built guns though due to all the small parts when compared to other guns designed to fire the .44 magnum- especially the pre-endurance guns. Post endurance guns will last almost indefinately with SAAMI spec ammo, but the stuff that BB builds and markets as +P+ will loosen them up after much less shooting than say a Redhawk (if you can even loosen one of them up).

 

[Dnovo1]

Agree 100% with all of the above. On the other hand, even when the gun is built to digest a steady diet of the really heavy stuff, the shooter has his limits as well.

I took two of my bid boomers out to the range yesterday, a Reeder Mastodon in a 510 GNR (built on a Redhawk) and a Bowen Longhunter conversion of a Blackhawks in the 50AE. Ten or fifteen rounds of each were enough for me to switch to my Model 14 and some 38 wadcutters and some 44Special cowboy loads in my 329PD. Felt like I was popping off 22s after the first two guns! Dave

 

[Nframe357]

I've personally fired this load from RH that I used to own and it is HOT, the warning to not use it in a Smith is there for a reason. My advice is buy something heavier rahter than ruin your Smith with a load not made for it.

 

[TAROMAN]

If you need that much energy, just get a 500 and get on with the show.

 

[Smithslap]

I've personally fired this load from RH that I used to own and it is HOT, the warning to not use it in a Smith is there for a reason. My advice is buy something heavier rahter than ruin your Smith with a load not made for it.

There is no warning to specifically not use it in a Smith. And, the "warning" has to do with cylinder length, not strength.

Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

They fit fine in my Smith, though I recognize creep can potentially occur, the round does appear to be heavily crimped and based upon this testing here I think I have little fear (firing a stouter round with a heavier bullet):

http://www.scopedin.com/articles/equipment-tests/454-casull-cartridge-crimp-creep/


It would require approx 2 mm of creep to lock the gun. I will fire a cylinder full at the range and report on the sixth round.

Again weight and concealment are also an issue for me, and a shoulder holster not relevent at this time. Didn't really want this to become a debate over my choice of lead delievery systems

 

[sniper47]

I understand the "bigger is better" mentality, especially when it comes to guns. I love shooting my friend's .458 Win Mag.

What I don't understand is why people keep trying to make the .44 Magnum something that it's not...especially when there are many larger cartridges and handguns specifically designed to be an "upgrade" from the .44 Magnum.

[shrug]

I handload a 265 grain Keith bullet with EMK's original load and go well over 1350 fps with it. If that won't do the trick, obviously I need to go to a bigger caliber, not keep loading up the .44.

Is modern .44 mag ammo loaded to the original load? I may start handloading next year and was curious.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Is modern .44 mag ammo loaded to the original load? I may start handloading next year and was curious.

No, it's not.
See my post above.