Bullet set back

Shooting Padre

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It seems here was the best place to post this. While cleaning my M&P 9 I noticed the top round in the mag had the bullet set back a bit. Upon closer inspection, I found the round that had been in the chamber also was short. The rest were fine. The ammo in question is Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr with a XTP bullet.

What would cause this. These rounds are not in the gun when I shoot, I use my reloads for target practice. I carry with a round in the chamber, and when I re arm the gun, I let the slide forward to chamber a round, then remove the mag and add another round to fill it. In all probability, the two rounds in question were always the rounds being chambered. Any help would be welcome. Thanks.
 
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Loose or over worked crimp on the rounds. Semi-autos don't get a firm roll crimp, they get a taper crimp so the round will seat on the mouth of the case.
 
This is usually caused by constantly re-chambering a cartridge over and over. As the round feeds, the bullet hits the chamber. This can knock the bullet back after a few iterations.

Do not attempt to shoot those two cartridges. The pressure may be too high and could cause a catastrophic failure.

I generally recommend shooting the currently chambered round rather than unloading it and reloading it. This way you know they're is always a fresh round in the gun and you get a little practice work the actual defense ammo.
 
I think Rastoff has it. Also continual resistance from ramp feeding can push back on those two re-used rounds.
I use Hornady CDs in my Ruger LCP and don't seem to have that problem.
 
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Despite managing a gun store for a couple years in the '80s and being involved with guns for a while, I first noticed bullet setback as an issue with the early .357 SIG rounds (before they were cannelured) in the mid-'90s. Talking about it with more experienced friends recently (after noticing setback with some Buffalo Bore .380 ball), I was encouraged to actually measure rounds that had been chambered.

Pulling out the calipers, I found that some setback is not all that uncommon with even the first chambering of a round in a semiauto. I now am a lot more careful to not cycle ammo that I'm not planning to shoot.

(FWIW, I've used a bullet puller to lengthen a couple set-back rounds, used a die to re-seat them to correct OAL, re-crimped them . . . and then fired them.)
 
Not exactly the same but a close spin off this is for some of us that use a shot load. Much of the time I carry a speer shot capsule load on my top revolver chamber in case I see a rattler or maybe might want to hit a attacking dog without killing it. I had one major incident where it tied the cylinder up at the worst time. I was carrying a model 60 with the speer on top and got in a stupid altercation where I hit the gun against a car window. The impact knocked the capsule forward into the barrel freezing the gun up. That was 40 years ago. Again recently I was carrying a capsule in a 3" model 36 trail riding and plinked at something and the recoil set the capsule forward tying the gun up. For many years I have carried that way but I wont anymore. The idea was I would see a snake, open the cylinder and turn it back one position to shoot it. Now I think I will just carry one or two in my shirt pocket. I have them for .38, 44 and 45.
 
So glad the OP brought this up. I just checked the Hornady CD 45s in my 1911 Officers and sure enough the top round I'd recycled a few times is set back. :( Thanks
 
Some company's use a "Sealer" on the primer and bullet to "Lock" them in place and make the load water-proof.

I am guessing Hornady does not do this.

Hornady is not noted for hot +p loads ......I would think they are ok to fire, even though they are set back some.
 
^I believe the increase in pressure is not linear, and I would not shoot these rounds.

As stated, the sound practice is to chamber a round only once and then shoot it. This is a vital practice in the AR platform, too, even if you have a rifle that is correctly chambered in 5.56X45 (being marked as such don't make it true).
 
I emailed Speer a couple years ago about set back on their gold dots and they told me not to fire ones that have been cycled more than 4 or 5 times. So after the 4th time I'll take it out of my oration and shoot on my next trip to the range.


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Don't let the slide slam forward ride it, you'll feel if it goes fully into battery.
 
Don't let the slide slam forward ride it, you'll feel if it goes fully into battery.
What does this have to do with anything in this thread?



Shooting Padre,
The reason I wouldn't suggest shooting them is that there is no way to know how much pressure they will generate. As the volume decreases, the pressure rises. There is a good chance that they will fire just fine. However, if they generate too much pressure, the result could be a trip to the hospital.
 
What does this have to do with anything in this thread?



Shooting Padre,
The reason I wouldn't suggest shooting them is that there is no way to know how much pressure they will generate. As the volume decreases, the pressure rises. There is a good chance that they will fire just fine. However, if they generate too much pressure, the result could be a trip to the hospital.

I believe he's referring to bullet movement due to the slide slamming forward.
Easy now...
 
It seems here was the best place to post this. While cleaning my M&P 9 I noticed the top round in the mag had the bullet set back a bit. Upon closer inspection, I found the round that had been in the chamber also was short. The rest were fine. The ammo in question is Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr with a XTP bullet.

What would cause this. These rounds are not in the gun when I shoot, I use my reloads for target practice. I carry with a round in the chamber, and when I re arm the gun, I let the slide forward to chaP

Re: OP. Set back is the result of the violence of the loading cycle that is common to how semi-automatic pistols function. As the cartridge is fed from the magazine to the chamber then nose of the bullet impacts the feed ramp and sometimes elsewhere in the loading cycle. Taking the same round and repeatedly loading it in the magazine and then chambering it will sooner or later loosen and set back the projectile of any cartridge every made. I've seen in not just in 9mm but also in .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

It is understandable that one would not want to fire expensive and often hard to obtain high performance ammunition that has been bought primarily for SD/HD and not range use. However repeated cycling of HP ammunition will lead to set back just as with common range/practice ammunition.

One way to avoid the problem is to not cycle the same round through the pistol. When you clear the pistol take the round that was in the chamber and set it aside.
Empty the magazine with the rounds laid out as they were in the magazine. Load the round that was in the chamber as the first round in the magazine. Now load the magazine with the rest of the rounds beginning with the round that was previously last in the magazine. The result will be that each time you clear/clean, etc. the pistol, a fresh never cycled round will be chambered, all cycled rounds will be in the bottom of the magazine having been cycled only once, all uncycled rounds will be at the top of the magazine.

It is exceedingly unlikely that a single cycle through a pistol would cause any significant set back. Perhaps after two cycles, a round might just possibly begin to show set back such that one would be concerned. Most likely it would require more than two cycles. With a typical high capacity magazine, cycling all the rounds would mean one had cleared/cleaned the pistol between 30-34 times. That would greatly extend the useful service of expensive SD/HD ammunition such that one could than set those possibly compromised rounds aside for range/training use. In the time it took to cycle box of SD/HD ammunition through a magazine twice, one would likely be able to locate and purchase replacement ammunition of one's choosing.

Just thinking out loud. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.
 
Don't let the slide slam forward ride it, you'll feel if it goes fully into battery.
*
I am not aware of any credible trainer who teaches this. One should cycle the slide with as much vigor as possible as part of making ready. If at slide lock, either slingshot it, or hit the release, whichever is more comfortable and effective for you.
 
I believe he's referring to bullet movement due to the slide slamming forward.
Easy now...
OK, I got that, but it still has noting to do with this thread.

If you're saying that bullet set back can be avoided by easing the slide forward, then it's plain wrong. First, that won't definitively prevent set back. It may reduce the chances, but it's no guarantee. Second, it's a bad practice. For a defensive gun, which this is, you don't want to develop the habit of easing the slide forward. It could cost you in a defensive situation. Third, the gun is not designed to work that way. By easing the slide forward you increase the chance of a mis-feed. Thus the cartridge will have to be ejected and re-inserted. This increases the chances of bullet set back.

No, easing the slide forward is not the answer. Operate the gun like it was intended. Let the slide slam home. Don't load and re-load the same round many times.
 
Bullet set back is a real thing.

That said, it is a more significant issue in function and reliability than in excessive pressure.

I don't want to use ammo that is set back to the extent that it is noticeable because it may create feeding issues, not because of any concern about excessive pressure.

I shoot it all at the range without a concern, or any reputable evidence, that pressure may be an issue to worry about in these cartridges. This has been my practice for almost 40 years with both handgun and rifle ammo.

Anyone who has done much hand loading understands that set back is really an issue of OAL of the loaded cartridge, not one of excess pressure (assuming you aren't compressing the powder).

I have an old ashtray I put the setback ammo in, then I shoot it up at the range.

It's good to pay attention to your ammo.

Not so good to overly fuss about it.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
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