Bullseye Revolver
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USBP SW
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That's easy, the K-38/model 14 is easily my favorite. If you need it to be able to shoot .357, perhaps the model 19. If you want to shoot a lot of .357, go with an N-frame, either the model 27 or model 28.
Good luck in any event,
Steve
Good luck in any event,
Steve
jhvaughan2
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I completely agree with USBP -- However.
For me the 38/44 outdoorsman is more accurate in .38 than the M14 - but it's "collect-ability" may not make it good for competition.
I found that Dan Wesson M15 was more accurate than the M19 Smith, but not enough to make a difference to me.
For me the 38/44 outdoorsman is more accurate in .38 than the M14 - but it's "collect-ability" may not make it good for competition.
I found that Dan Wesson M15 was more accurate than the M19 Smith, but not enough to make a difference to me.
IMHO, the name "Target Masterpiece" says it all.
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GyMac
US Veteran
The model 14. I just shot mine this morning.
Thuer
Member
The model 14 is an absolute underestimated revolver. There are even single action only models made. It is an very accurate revolver and the perfect choice for to take part on shootingmatches.
For $800 it would have to be a lot better than "nice". New in box would be more like it.
keithherrington
Member
My local gunshop, Bart's Sporting Goods in Glen Burnie, MD has a pristine 14-4 on its shelf for $550. Contact either Al or Tom at 410-761-8686 if interested.
Keith
Keith
Picked up a mint 6 inch 4 screw k-38 from the late 50s with no box or tools for $600 and I think I bought it a bit early,but I'm happy with it.
Hobie1
Member
Greetings,
Have you shot Bullseye competition before? The reason why I ask is that a revolver is a little more un-wieldly on the firing line when it comes to loading and emptying the spent cartridges. It can be difficult to not "sweep" the line if you're not careful when you drop the cylinder. The RSOs get downright grumpy if you sweep the line. I watched a guy get booted off the property during a match because he just couldn't get it right.
Also another consideration: Can you shoot rapid fire(5 shots in 10 seconds) double action style? I think this alone is why most of the Bullseye shooters have gravitated to semi-autos. Reloads are quick and easy and it's easier to stay on target just having to pull a 3 1/2 lb. trigger.
Whatever, good luck to you in your Bullseye comp.
Hobie
In regards to bullseye also, you only use one hand to hold the gun in all aspects. "Son, they don't call it a hand-gun for nothing, my instructor chided me."
Have you shot Bullseye competition before? The reason why I ask is that a revolver is a little more un-wieldly on the firing line when it comes to loading and emptying the spent cartridges. It can be difficult to not "sweep" the line if you're not careful when you drop the cylinder. The RSOs get downright grumpy if you sweep the line. I watched a guy get booted off the property during a match because he just couldn't get it right.
Also another consideration: Can you shoot rapid fire(5 shots in 10 seconds) double action style? I think this alone is why most of the Bullseye shooters have gravitated to semi-autos. Reloads are quick and easy and it's easier to stay on target just having to pull a 3 1/2 lb. trigger.
Whatever, good luck to you in your Bullseye comp.
Hobie
In regards to bullseye also, you only use one hand to hold the gun in all aspects. "Son, they don't call it a hand-gun for nothing, my instructor chided me."
ChuckS1
US Veteran
Much as I like my pre-Model 14, for bullseye, it's easier me me to use my M1911A1. Besides, a bigger bullet means I have a better chance of hitting the X ring! 
earplug
Member
Red dot sight?
If your eyes aren't wonderful and you want to score well consider my off the wall suggestion.
Drill and tap a fixed sight heavy barrel K frame. I use a four inch M-65 with a Ultra dot Match dot sight.
I had a 8 3/8 M-14 and after putting the red dot sight on it I realized that longer barrel did nothing for me at 25 yards.
I was also shooting a 5 inch 625 with a dot and switched to a four inch.
Ended up using the M-65 for my league. The red dot can be moved around on the rail to adjust the balance you desire and barrel length is a none issue.
Plenty of fixed sight guns around for far less then M-14's.
Any of them are able to be slicked up real easy and you don't feel bad about beveling the charge holes to make loading easier. And I dare say a accidental double charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye in a .357 might not ruin the cylinder. I use 38 spl brass and 148 grain DEWC.
If your eyes aren't wonderful and you want to score well consider my off the wall suggestion.
Drill and tap a fixed sight heavy barrel K frame. I use a four inch M-65 with a Ultra dot Match dot sight.
I had a 8 3/8 M-14 and after putting the red dot sight on it I realized that longer barrel did nothing for me at 25 yards.
I was also shooting a 5 inch 625 with a dot and switched to a four inch.
Ended up using the M-65 for my league. The red dot can be moved around on the rail to adjust the balance you desire and barrel length is a none issue.
Plenty of fixed sight guns around for far less then M-14's.
Any of them are able to be slicked up real easy and you don't feel bad about beveling the charge holes to make loading easier. And I dare say a accidental double charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye in a .357 might not ruin the cylinder. I use 38 spl brass and 148 grain DEWC.
scooter123
Member
I would recomend the late model 67 with the 2 piece barrel. I have a 620 with this barrel system and the accuracy is simply stunning, however as a 357 Magnum the bullet jump may degrade the accuracy a touch. With the 67 you get a dedicated 38 spl. so no bullet jump. As for the specific dash number, I believe that it's the 67-6 but could be wrong about that.
Now, the key to spotting the tensioned barrel is to look at the muzzle flange at the end of the barrel shroud. Take a look at one of the current Night Guards to see what that muzzle flange looks like. Also look for a recessed crown with the rifling ending about 1/8 inch into the barrel.
As for accuracy, IMO you can expect 1/2 inch or smaller groups at 50 yards if your up to it. I've managed some 1/2 inch cloverleafs with my 620 from a rest using a scope and feel a better shooter could do it for a full cylinder. Unfortunately, I tend to get over excited when I see just one hole in the target downrange and start throwing flyers.
Now, the 67 will only have a 4 inch barrel so IMO you will need the help of some optics. Fortunately, Bullseye competitions now allow the use of optical sights. If your eyesight is good enough to see a quarter at 50 yards I would recomend using a Reflex Sight. J P Rifles makes a reflex sight mount for their J Point reflex that sit's close to the bore axis and is quite compact. However, the J Point reflex doesn't have the clearest optics due to the use of an acrylic lens to minimize weight. As a result it's a reflex sight more suited to field use than precision shooting because the dot can be a bit fuzzy. However, J P rifles also offers an adapter plate for the Doctor Reflex that features a glass lens and excellent sharpness for the dot. Below is a link to my report on the J Point reflex showing it mounted to 3 of my revolvers, plus the good and bad about this particular sight. As for the Doctor Reflex, that sight can be a bit of a challenge to find. IIRC CDNN was selling the Doctor about 6 months ago, you may want to take a look and see if they are still selling it.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/155300-purchased-2-more-j-point-reflex-sights-range-report.html
Now for one final though on the reloading comments. If you are serious about getting deeply involved in Bullseye competitions I'd suggest that you have your revolver converted to run moon clips. Belows is a link to TK Customs who have had numerous rave reviews on this sight. Just something to look into. As someone with 2 revolvers set up for moon clips I can do nothing but rave about them, you just can't beat the convenience of having 150 or so rounds of ammo preloaded in clips ready to slide into the cylinder.
Now one final word on the 2 piece barrels. As far as I know ALL of them are ECM machined barrels. Which means they work great with jackted ammo but are a bit sensitive to leading when used with cast bullets. From what I've gleaned from this site lubrication is CRITICAL. If you plan on reloading, make sure you check for leading every 50 rounds expended until you figure out how to load for an ECM barrel. I'll also warn you to TOTALLY AVOID the Blaser aluminum hulled LRN, it's not lubricated at all and leaded horribly in my 620 the one time I tried it for 50 rounds. Took me 10 hours of work over 3 days to delead the barrel and the leading was so bad that if I had shot some jacketed ammo before cleaning the barrel I believe it would have either bulged the barrel or caused a full power squib. Yeah, the leading really was that bad.
PS; my go to ammo in my 620 is the American Eagle 130 gn FMJ. Accuracy is superb and it shoots very clean in my 620. However, the most accurate ammo I've ever shot in the 620 was some Speer Lawman 125 gn TMJ, that ammo yielded a few cloverleafs at 50 feet that I could cover completely with a dime. Unortunately, I haven't seen this particular Speer Lawman for sale in nearly 3 years. BTW, it was that Speer ammo that started me out on my quest to see just what my 620 could do and I've come to realize that I will never have the ability to shoot to it's full potential, best I've managed is some occasional 3 and 4 shot groups that keep driving me to try for 5. Now I considering dropping about 400 dollars on a scope with more magnification just to see if that will help. So, I'll warn you right now, if you get an exceptionally accurate handgun the quest to shoot it to it's full potential never ends.
PSS; I'll also admit that I have to cheat to get the results I've managed so far. Simple truth is I'm just not steady enough to shoot the 50 yard Bullseye course, so this old fart pulls a chair up to the bench and shoots from a sandbag using both hands.
Now, the key to spotting the tensioned barrel is to look at the muzzle flange at the end of the barrel shroud. Take a look at one of the current Night Guards to see what that muzzle flange looks like. Also look for a recessed crown with the rifling ending about 1/8 inch into the barrel.
As for accuracy, IMO you can expect 1/2 inch or smaller groups at 50 yards if your up to it. I've managed some 1/2 inch cloverleafs with my 620 from a rest using a scope and feel a better shooter could do it for a full cylinder. Unfortunately, I tend to get over excited when I see just one hole in the target downrange and start throwing flyers.
Now, the 67 will only have a 4 inch barrel so IMO you will need the help of some optics. Fortunately, Bullseye competitions now allow the use of optical sights. If your eyesight is good enough to see a quarter at 50 yards I would recomend using a Reflex Sight. J P Rifles makes a reflex sight mount for their J Point reflex that sit's close to the bore axis and is quite compact. However, the J Point reflex doesn't have the clearest optics due to the use of an acrylic lens to minimize weight. As a result it's a reflex sight more suited to field use than precision shooting because the dot can be a bit fuzzy. However, J P rifles also offers an adapter plate for the Doctor Reflex that features a glass lens and excellent sharpness for the dot. Below is a link to my report on the J Point reflex showing it mounted to 3 of my revolvers, plus the good and bad about this particular sight. As for the Doctor Reflex, that sight can be a bit of a challenge to find. IIRC CDNN was selling the Doctor about 6 months ago, you may want to take a look and see if they are still selling it.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/155300-purchased-2-more-j-point-reflex-sights-range-report.html
Now for one final though on the reloading comments. If you are serious about getting deeply involved in Bullseye competitions I'd suggest that you have your revolver converted to run moon clips. Belows is a link to TK Customs who have had numerous rave reviews on this sight. Just something to look into. As someone with 2 revolvers set up for moon clips I can do nothing but rave about them, you just can't beat the convenience of having 150 or so rounds of ammo preloaded in clips ready to slide into the cylinder.
Now one final word on the 2 piece barrels. As far as I know ALL of them are ECM machined barrels. Which means they work great with jackted ammo but are a bit sensitive to leading when used with cast bullets. From what I've gleaned from this site lubrication is CRITICAL. If you plan on reloading, make sure you check for leading every 50 rounds expended until you figure out how to load for an ECM barrel. I'll also warn you to TOTALLY AVOID the Blaser aluminum hulled LRN, it's not lubricated at all and leaded horribly in my 620 the one time I tried it for 50 rounds. Took me 10 hours of work over 3 days to delead the barrel and the leading was so bad that if I had shot some jacketed ammo before cleaning the barrel I believe it would have either bulged the barrel or caused a full power squib. Yeah, the leading really was that bad.
PS; my go to ammo in my 620 is the American Eagle 130 gn FMJ. Accuracy is superb and it shoots very clean in my 620. However, the most accurate ammo I've ever shot in the 620 was some Speer Lawman 125 gn TMJ, that ammo yielded a few cloverleafs at 50 feet that I could cover completely with a dime. Unortunately, I haven't seen this particular Speer Lawman for sale in nearly 3 years. BTW, it was that Speer ammo that started me out on my quest to see just what my 620 could do and I've come to realize that I will never have the ability to shoot to it's full potential, best I've managed is some occasional 3 and 4 shot groups that keep driving me to try for 5. Now I considering dropping about 400 dollars on a scope with more magnification just to see if that will help. So, I'll warn you right now, if you get an exceptionally accurate handgun the quest to shoot it to it's full potential never ends.
PSS; I'll also admit that I have to cheat to get the results I've managed so far. Simple truth is I'm just not steady enough to shoot the 50 yard Bullseye course, so this old fart pulls a chair up to the bench and shoots from a sandbag using both hands.
boatbum101
Member
Well if you insist on shooting a 38 for 2700 matches . Let me tell you a few things . Hobie above made a few very valid points . I can tell you from bitter experience the 38 will hurt your score far more than help . You have to shoot both a 22 & a 45 . Majority shoot 45 in both CF & 45 matches . Unless you're consistently shooting Master scores don't go off on a tangent . If you just have to OK . It can be done but it sure complicates things . Trigger control is # 1 skill to shoot accurately . Revolvers that are capable ( chambered in 38 special forget 357 ) are S&W K 38 / Model 14 , S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman / Model 23 or Colt Officers Model Match . There are also some European revolvers that are capable too . For auto's you have 1911 38 special conversions , Sig P 240 or S&W 52 . If you also want to shoot Distinguished Revolver Matches get either the K 38 or the Outdoorsman . You can find a used K 38 in good shape for $ 4-450 if you look , a used Outdoorsman in good shape $ 1100 - 1300 . Colt OMM $ 700 up . $ 800 unless it's a collector grade pre model 14 is insanity besides it'll be too nice to lay on the bench while you go down & score / repair / replace targets . My advice is shoot the 45 as you have to master it anyway . When you break Expert have a dedicated 1911 lower made with the same trigger weight / pull as your 45 wadgun . Put a Marvel 22 conversion on it & don't look back . Your 22 scores will suffer initially but it'll help tremendously with your 45 scores in the long run . Why ? Because you only have 1 trigger to learn & master . You're talking about 3 different triggers . Do you get my point ? Now let's get into the accuracy part . Any good 22 pistol is capable of putting 10 shots in 1.5" or less @ 50yds . A well setup 1911 45acp 2" or less . 38 special 3" or less . Attached targets were shot one handed @ 50yds with my 52-2 . Sincerely I hope this helps .
Andy
Andy
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David LaPell
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I can tell you my choice is the .38-44 Outdoorsman. I have owned alot of .38 Specials over the years, and this one will shoot better than any I have ever owned. Not to mention it won't ever wear out and it loves cast bullets.
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Nemovir
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Just my .02 worth, I have not seen anyone shoot a revolver on the line.
You didn't write whether you are a beginner or not. If you are, I would suggest a K22 instead of a .38. Reason why, is that I believe you will find it more of a hassle than not. At least, if you decide you don't want to use a revolver, you will still have a nice cheap plinker(in the long run).
You didn't write whether you are a beginner or not. If you are, I would suggest a K22 instead of a .38. Reason why, is that I believe you will find it more of a hassle than not. At least, if you decide you don't want to use a revolver, you will still have a nice cheap plinker(in the long run
).
Nemovir
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For those of you that are curious about Conventional Pistol(bullseyes). Here is a good link.
The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol
The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol
Revolver shooters on the line are very rare, but I know of one "newish" shooter who shot revolvers for 22/cf/45 all the way to master classification recently.
That being said, shooting rapid fire with a revolver is very doable. It does requires practice to thumb-cock single handed (much easier with a wiiiiiide extended hammer). One has plenty of time to shoot single action.
If one is determined to shoot double action, then a trigger job to make the double action pull very light is the other solution.
The other concern for revolvers, is that there six (or more) cylinders. Not all cylinders are equal. Bullseye shooters, will sandbag or ransom rest each cylinder, to find which cylinder is the most accurate at 50 yards and only use that one cylinder for slow fire.
Would I recommend you use a revolver if you're just starting out in bullseye? For the 22 portion sure. No issues.
For the CF, maybe not. Only because you have to practice with a completely different gun (recoil, trigger, grip, action are all different) if you use a 1911 for the 45.
That being said, shooting rapid fire with a revolver is very doable. It does requires practice to thumb-cock single handed (much easier with a wiiiiiide extended hammer). One has plenty of time to shoot single action.
If one is determined to shoot double action, then a trigger job to make the double action pull very light is the other solution.
The other concern for revolvers, is that there six (or more) cylinders. Not all cylinders are equal. Bullseye shooters, will sandbag or ransom rest each cylinder, to find which cylinder is the most accurate at 50 yards and only use that one cylinder for slow fire.
Would I recommend you use a revolver if you're just starting out in bullseye? For the 22 portion sure. No issues.
For the CF, maybe not. Only because you have to practice with a completely different gun (recoil, trigger, grip, action are all different) if you use a 1911 for the 45.
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