I called S&W today about an issue, and during the conversation, I told them I was shooting +P+ in my 9mm 3913. They said "NO", do not shoot +P+ in ANY S&W handgun. So, are they blowing smoke up my @$$, or will I damage my gun ? I already plan on buying a stronger Wolff recoil spring for it. Is that good enough, or should I avoid Winchester's excellent +P+ defense rounds ? That stuff is super high quality, and really hot. BUT, I don't want to damage my gun or cause a malfunction, particularly since it's a carry gun. What gives ?
Called S&W today, and they said use NO +p+ in their guns
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I called S&W today about an issue, and during the conversation, I told them I was shooting +P+ in my 9mm 3913. They said "NO", do not shoot +P+ in ANY S&W handgun. So, are they blowing smoke up my @$$, or will I damage my gun ? I already plan on buying a stronger Wolff recoil spring for it. Is that good enough, or should I avoid Winchester's excellent +P+ defense rounds ? That stuff is super high quality, and really hot. BUT, I don't want to damage my gun or cause a malfunction, particularly since it's a carry gun. What gives ?
1. There are NO SAAMI standards for +P+, so manufacturers vary in the pressures.
2. The departments that use +P+ "LEO ONLY" ammunition sign waivers that they understand the pistol warranties are void.
3. If a company were to say its OK to use +P+, that would be an implied warranty, and S&W will not do it. If you blow it up or damage it with +P+, it's your problem. Think about it: would you expect GM to honor the 3-year warranty on your Chevy if you used it for racing?
2. The departments that use +P+ "LEO ONLY" ammunition sign waivers that they understand the pistol warranties are void.
3. If a company were to say its OK to use +P+, that would be an implied warranty, and S&W will not do it. If you blow it up or damage it with +P+, it's your problem. Think about it: would you expect GM to honor the 3-year warranty on your Chevy if you used it for racing?
Sooo, if the +P+ LE ammo manufacturers were selling ammo that blew up guns, then we would have heard about it, right ? I get the car racing analogy, but it sounds like it's still safe, even though it beats your gun a little more ? It's probably not anywhere near a situation where a modern pistol is going to be "on the verge" of blowing up with +P+ round, right ? I can't imagine Winchester would sell such ammunition knowing that the pressure was so close as to actually cause a gun to blow up !
AKsRule
Member
In over 30 years of shooting I have never felt deprived because my factory ammo wasn't 50fps faster,
and none of my targets - paper or animal - have ever complained.
I don't know if 1 overpressure round will blow up my gun and neither do you , but before you try to find out ,
ask yourself one question - Do you feel lucky?
Finally - Speed and Power always come at a Price - So don't spend extra puttin Caviar on a HotDog , because in
the end , it's still just a HotDog..............
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Leave the springs standard. Stronger recoil springs have certain other disadvantages. The slide slams back forward with more force and the slide moves forward much faster which gives the next round less time to get up into position for feeding.
You can use +P+ without fear of catastrophic failure. You will accelerate wear somewhat, but not much and no measurable harm will be done if you use it occasionally and carry it and practice with standard pressure ammo.
S&W just cannot tell you that for liability and warranty (legal) reasons.
Rock185
US Veteran
I use, or have used, +P+, +P, NATO ball and equivalent reloads in my 9MMs for many years. Prior to there being a +P or +P+ designation, my most-used reloads were 125 Speer JSP at ~1250fps and Sierra 115 grain JHCs at ~1350 fps. As I recall, I started loading to those velocities to better knock down steel plates in some of the Practical Pistol matches of the day. This includes my HK P7, Hi-Powers,S&W 3906,5906,539,639,my current Performance Center 5906s and my 3913, Glocks, Kimbers, Ruger and S&W revolvers, etc. Never a problem. I have never hesitated to use this ammo in any properly maintained, quality pistol. I would not use +P+ or even +P in most old military surplus pistols though. I admit I did test some in my old Inglis though, and it functioed 100% and without incident. Illinois State police used the +P+ ammo for years in their model 39 and 39-2s. I suspect that most of our modern pistols may be more durable than those early 39s and 39-2s. Glock sent a police info packet to my former P.D. stating that +P,+P+ and NATO was approved in their guns and would not decrease the service life. Yes,I know the owners manual in our commercially purchased Glocks don't say the same thing.
I do use Win. 127 +P+ and Fed 9BPLE 115 +P+ in my 3913 with the stock recoil spring. I admit that I do use one of the BufferTech buffers on the recoil spring of the 3913 though.
I find that the +P+ and some of the +P, like CorBon, run about 100-150fps faster than standard 9mm depending on bullet weight and which pistol and barrel length,etc.
I've seen this discussed quite a bit and I think I'll post it for all to see, if I ever damage one of my pistols with +P+ ammo. That's been my experience anyway and ymmv.
I do use Win. 127 +P+ and Fed 9BPLE 115 +P+ in my 3913 with the stock recoil spring. I admit that I do use one of the BufferTech buffers on the recoil spring of the 3913 though.
I find that the +P+ and some of the +P, like CorBon, run about 100-150fps faster than standard 9mm depending on bullet weight and which pistol and barrel length,etc.
I've seen this discussed quite a bit and I think I'll post it for all to see, if I ever damage one of my pistols with +P+ ammo. That's been my experience anyway and ymmv.
RRH
Member
A question ran through my mind while reading this thread. Would we, as law abiding citizens defending our families, etc., be at additional risk in today's judicial system for using +p+ or "LE only" ammunition in (heaven forbid) a self defense situation? Would we be portrayed as animals with x number of guns just looking for the extreme? No political implications are intended but my confidence in our government and judicial system is at an all time low.
orangehole
Member
No that would be easily defendable in court. You wanted to use the same ammunition that our fine law enforcement agencies trust their own lives and the lives they are sworn to protect. I could see super hot handloads being a problem but I cannot see using commercial LEO ammo being a problem.
You can call S&W customer service 5 times and be told 5 different answers. Moderate use of +P+ is not a problem.
You can call S&W customer service 5 times and be told 5 different answers. Moderate use of +P+ is not a problem.
I'm with orangehole on this one, and I am super conservative about what ammo to use for civilian defense. As long as you are using a factory load that is in no way esoteric(like the "flamethrower"shotgun loads), you are in safe territory. Actually the best reason for using a specific round is that LE personnel use it. You are simply borrowing wisdom developed by the folks who should know.
For years I had a large supply of 110GR JHP +P+ ammo known as "Treasury" ammo, I shot it in everything I had including a couple of alloy frame guns, a M37 and a Colt Cobra. No problems whatsoever, of course that light bullet probably did not develop much pressure but it sure was loud and had a flash!
For years I had a large supply of 110GR JHP +P+ ammo known as "Treasury" ammo, I shot it in everything I had including a couple of alloy frame guns, a M37 and a Colt Cobra. No problems whatsoever, of course that light bullet probably did not develop much pressure but it sure was loud and had a flash!
dennis40x
US Veteran
When S&W introduced the 640-38Spl with serial number prefix of CEN lettering inside the frame window read (TESTED FOR +P+).
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