Carbide vs TiN dies?

[rustythread]

I have a bunch of components for .223 /5.56, and will need to get some new dies to load them up. What's the current experience with the titanium nitride as compared to carbide dies for lubeless depriming and sizing?

These are all military once-fired cases, about 5,000 of them; I also have a thousand or so 7.62 x 51 US military cases. Any recommendations for a primer pocket swager or swaging dies to install in the old Rockchucker?

 

[TheTinMan]

I went down the swaging rabbit hole and ended up buying a Dillon device. My first taste of blue Kool-Aid!

I lubricate rifle cases.

 

[rockquarry]

I don't know about dies; I use a conventional sizing die that requires the cases to be lubed and it's worked fine for many years.

As for a primer pocket swager, the inexpensive RCBS version works very well. Mine is probably from the '60s or early '70s. Most complaints are from those who don't take the time to properly adjust the die for the press it is being used in. The fine tuning is a one-time procedure and the die never needs re-adjustment unless you use it in a different press, and even then, it may not require adjustment.

The Dillon primer pocket swager may be a little faster but it will provide no better results than a properly adjusted RCBS tool and the Dillon will be considerably more expensive.

 

[Fishinfool]

I to use an old RCBS swager that fits my press. It works. Do they make carbide / TNT dies for bottlenecked rifles? I use either an RCBS lube pad, or spray with Hornady one shot. You might want to pick up a heavy duty universal deprimer die as those crimped primers can be a little stiff getting out the first time.

Larry

 

[Rlg#17]

You have to lube rifle cases, even with carbide or tni dies. And still it will be a good idea to have a stuck case remover on hand.

RCBS swager works fine as does the Dillon. The Dillon is faster for me. 5 k of crimped primer pockets will take a bit of time to process.

Regards, Rick Gibbs

 

[H Richard]

I have a set of TN dies from Hornady for 32 H&R Mag (can also do .32, .32 Long, and 327 Mag. I found I had to lube about every 3rd case or they tended to start biding or showing rub marks. I recommend Imperial sizing wax.

 

[6string]

You have to lube rifle cases, even with carbide or tni dies. And still it will be a good idea to have a stuck case remover on hand.

RCBS swager works fine as does the Dillon. The Dillon is faster for me. 5 k of crimped primer pockets will take a bit of time to process.

Regards, Rick Gibbs

Yes, this is true!
The original idea behind carbide dies for bottleneck cartridges was to extend the life of the die when reloading vast quantities of ammo for use in full size machine guns. You still have to use lubrication!
Dillon will confirm this, as well as the commercial loaders who use their carbide dies in the RL1050 press.
Titanium Nitride is just a coating. It may reduce friction in applications like tools and cutters, but it does wear out and the tool in question then becomes trash. The idea is an improvement or variation on the older idea of chrome plated sizing dies like C-H tried back in the 1960s and 70s.
Titanium Nitride started out with some promise but has taken a nosedive thanks to quality control compromises to expand its affordable application throughtout various industries.
In that respect, it's not unlike gimmicky "non-stick" cookware.
I wouldn't waste my money on it.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I have Hornady, RCBS, LEE & Lyman sizing dies with differing carbide/nitride features: all have worked to my satisfaction. For rifle cartridges I use either a spray in a plastic baggie (223/5.56, 300 BLK) or the Hornady Unique Case Lube (Rifle & Magnum brass).

Anyone experiencing a die problem with any of these companies should just contact customer service, IMHO: I have never had any issue go unresolved.

Cheers!

P.S. I do, however, deprime and wet tumble all cases prior to resizing them. My sizing dies look brand new.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My first bottle neck carbide die is a Dillion in 357 Sig. For progressive loading I put about 200 at a time in a coffee can and spray with Hornady spray lube, dump in the case feeder and go to town!

A Friend had Hollywood Solid Carbide dies for 223, 30 Carbine, 30-30, 308, 30-06 and 8mm Mauser. In the late 60's these were $165 each, and required at least light lubrication. The new Dillion Carbide or Redding TiN FL dies are going to require lubing also!

I still use RCBS or Redding FL steel dies on rifle cases and lube about 50-100 at a time with Hornady Lock-N-Load spray lube. I put 200-250 lubed 300 Blackout cases in the case feeder at a time. Not a single problem!

The Hornady lube is a wax that dries and doesn't need removed to function in semi-auto firearms. (My full autos were all 9mm).

On Large cases like 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua mag, I use RCBS water soluble (#2) lube or Imperial Sizing Die Wax and size before wet pin tumbling. It cleans all 3 kinds of lube off cases!

I have a 40 year old RCBS 30 Carbine Carbide sizer, no lube required! 30 Carbine loads like a straight wall pistol case.

I see no time savings and not much effort savings using TiN or Carbide on rifle cases.

Ivan

 

[Cdog]

Ivan nailed it.

Those military cases, especially the 7.62 will need the benefits of a quality wax based lube. Lee, Imperial, Hornady Case Wax have proven themselves to me.

 

[Skeet 028]

I have carbide dies in 223/5.56 and 308/7.62. Both are Dillon sets...made by Redding originally I think. With the 223 I use one of the spray lubes put on at least a couple hours before loading(750). It is necessary to lube but I have never stuck a case in the 223. The 308 does take a bit more lube than the smaller case. I got both the Dillon Car idea at gun shows...both with stuck cases. I also seem to remember having a carbide 30 Carbine years ago but am certain it was Redding. Never loaded any ammo with it. To be honest I even spray lube handgun ammo cases too..Even slicker through the sizers

 

[chief38]

Most of my Dies are carbide (Dillon) and I also own a bunch of RCBS standard rifle Dies. Never had any issues with them. Have not tried TiN yet.

 

[tajada]

I don't think they could be that much better if any.

My RCBS .45 auto dies has had at least 50,000 cycles through them and the is no signs of wear in the die bodies, and these are used lube less as well per the manufactures recommendation.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Interestingly I just had a situation where the Tungsten Carbide insert(?) in a Lyman 9mm sizing die came loose (with a 9mm case attached)...

A little work with a sanding drum on the Dremel, some polishing the interior of the die with 600 grit paper, a Q-Tip's worth of alchohol & a few drops of JB Weld fixed everything up in about a jiffy & a half!

24 hours later I was encouraged to see my new sizing routine with the decapping pin installed (& post wet tumbling) successfully ejected the 40 (or so) SS pins I used to sort for and dig out individually... This was in a run of about 1200 cases, BTW.

CHEERS!

P.S. I still do deprime all my brass prior to tumbling in the Thumler's with dedicated depriming dies.

 

[SMSgt]

The only cases I have ever stuck were 223s, all in an RCBS die. All self inflicted. The neck and shoulders don't need lube as much as the case base. Never a problem after switching to Imperial case lube.

 

[noylj]

TiN resizes slightly more smoothly on average.
Never heard of bottleneck sizing dies, steel, carbide, TiN, or anything else NOT requiring bullet lube. These ceramic insert dies were designed for ammo plants produving million of rounds a year. They last longer than steel, but steel still exceeds lifetime of reloaders.
Just remember, if it is safe, they'll sell you anything you want

 

[Model19man]

Straight sided revolver cases I never lube if using a carbide die set. I recently started reloading 32 WCF and it's different with bottleneck cases. They like some lube. I've used Lyman spray lube with some success.

 

[Skeet 028]

I must say I do use spray lube...but with 218,22H,32-20,38-40 and 25-20 I use Imperial Wax. Darn cases are hard to come by and expensive. Not my favorites to load either.. No carbide. I do usually get 10 loads from them...cept maybe the Hornet

 

[jcelect]

I have a set of TN dies from Hornady for 32 H&R Mag (can also do .32, .32 Long, and 327 Mag. I found I had to lube about every 3rd case or they tended to start biding or showing rub marks. I recommend Imperial sizing wax.

Tumble in corn cob media and use a small amount, 1-2 table spoons in my Dillon large tumbler, of Nu Shine car wax, then deprime you brass. The wax plates out on the brass and makes them "slippery" to the touch. No lube ever needed on the straight wall pistol cartridges!
jcelect