Case Hardening

[dsf]

I saw a recent article that showed how to simulate case hardening and I believe it involved some bluing - does anyone recall or have a suggestion on getting a case hardened look on an S & W hammer/trigger that's been polished?

 

[dsf]

I saw a recent article that showed how to simulate case hardening and I believe it involved some bluing - does anyone recall or have a suggestion on getting a case hardened look on an S & W hammer/trigger that's been polished?

 

[handejector]

The first time I saw "fake" color case hardening was in the 60's when I worked for a gunsmith part-time after school. Since then, I have seen many other attempts at duplicating case colors.
All, without exception, look rather cheesy. Personally, I think you are better off leaving them as-is, or going the full route and replacing them or case hardening them for real through the better people who do it. I had rather have NO case than what is obviously "faked".
Good Luck.

 

[cgt4570]

I've been trying to learn the skill myself. I've read up on it. When I have more free time, I'll try it on some real parts. So far, I just played with some scrap metal with decent success. For coloring without effecting the hardness, you have to stay below 600 degrees F. I used bone meal for use on flowers, and some scraps of leather placed around the parts. I put them in an old cast iron pot with lid and cooked them in my grill for about an hour. Then I dumped them in a bucket of water with a little bit of oil on top. I put several Alca-selzer tablets in the bucket to give the bubbling effect. It needs some tweaking, but it's better than cold blue methods.
Chris

 

[Cooter Brown]

I go to another board that dicusses mostly double shotguns. Lots of discussion of case coloring there and the various processes used.

There are frequent posts containing pictures of guns for sale on the net that have been "re-case colored" by a particular "gunsmith." This guy actually uses a propane torch and spot hits the frame to give it a mottled appearance. Just awful. Mind you, these a are L.C. Smiths, LeFevers, Foxes, etc. Criminal.

I like nothing better than really nice case colors, but I agree with handejector. Good honest wear is fine, but if you want to freshen the colors send the parts to someone who really knows what they are doing. If you want some recommendations let me know. Small parts like that would not be terribly expensive even if done by someone very good.

Also understand that there can be some slight warpage during the process (nothing that couldn't be addressed with a little fitting), but someone who really knows what they are doing can really minimize or eliminate that.

 

[m-1911]

I have a hammer and trigger from a 2nd Model 44 HE that were nicle plated. I want to have them stripped abd color case hardened. I was thinking of sending them to Ford's. Any other ideas?

 

[Onomea]

Somewhere in my computer I have contact info on some folks who don't have a website, but are reputedly very good. I was thinking of using them. If I find it I'll send it along.

Meanwhile three ideas for you are Doug Turnbull, who does case coloring of parts for Hamilton Bowen and I guess anybody else who wants this done, David Chicoine (if he doesn't do it himself, he has a very good guy who does it for him), and Gene Williams. I believe Gene uses a subcontractor, and that the subcontractor has a site, but I don't recall who it is. Gene would probably tell you if you asked.

I believe Ford's approach is to use a blow torch. Lefty had this done a while back. It's not bad looking, and is more economical, but it does not look the same as true case coloring/case hardening.

 

[2152hq]

A couple of alternatives. They both do their own C/Color work.
>
http://www.ronsgunshop.com/index.html
http://www.classicgunsinc.com/index.html
Classic Guns Inc has alot of good feedback from the gunsmiths/engravers. I think Dave Chicoine uses(used) Classic Guns for C/C.
>
Color Case Company in New Springfield, Ohio (no Website) also does nice work with a fast turnaround. I've used them for years with no problems. Don Menk is the owner. 330-542-2062 is the # I have for him. I heard he may be retiring after this year.

 

[CMcDermott]

Doug Turnbull is expensive, but really is the best. Even S&W uses Turnbull for color case hardening their "Heritage" revolver frames as he can do it with minimal warping.

 

[Cooter Brown]

2152hq beat me to it. Had to post on another forum to get the contact info. John Gillette at Classic Guns and Color Case Company in Ohio are both highly recommended.

Ken Hurst, who was a Master Engraver at Colt for many years and is still working on guns, uses Classic.

There are a number of methods of case coloring. Turnbull and Gillete have experimented in trying to replipicate the methods that the different gunmakers used in their work, and I think they may use different techniques (I guess changes in formula etc. as it's pretty much all bone charcoal) to try to achieve accuracy in restoration work. Apparently metals are different now and some of the colors that used to be achieved by Colt, Parker, Fox, etc. are difficult to get, i.e. the older metals had more "straw" tones.

It would be interesting to know how Smith colored the hammers and triggers or if they outsourced the work. Anybody know this?

 

[bettis1]

I think that sometimes the hardness/composition of the metal has a lot to do with the outcome of the casehardening.

As a case in point, I have a beautiful post war Heavy Duty which belonged to a famous law enforcement outfit. When it was deaccessioned by the Department, it was renickeled (Origninal finish was also nickel) by the Smith Factory. The finish of the gun was very good except for the hammer and trigger which could only be described as "mousy". It bugged me every time that I looked at the gun so I decided to do something about it. I had a very good and well known gunsmith re-case the hammer and trigger for me. Although it turned out a little better, it still had pretty unimpressive colors.

I have had the same gunsmith do case hardening on other guns (Triple Locks, Registered Magnums, etc.) and the results were as good as anything that the Factory ever put out in their best prewar days. I live with the HD now, knowing that the color is as good as it can be.

Bob

 

[Onomea]

Here's one that I am considering having the hammer and trigger redone:

It shipped to W&K as nickel in 1928, a 3rd Model HE, after market ivories by Dan Collins, and was refinished in 1954 by the factory. I am well pleased with it, except for the faded case coloring.

Gary, if you were so inclined, before and afters would be appreciated, once you decide on how to proceed.

 

[kwill1911]

Originally posted by handejector:
The first time I saw "fake" color case hardening was in the 60's when I worked for a gunsmith part-time after school. Since then, I have seen many other attempts at duplicating case colors.
All, without exception, look rather cheesy. Personally, I think you are better off leaving them as-is, or going the full route and replacing them or case hardening them for real through the better people who do it. I had rather have NO case than what is obviously "faked".
Good Luck.

Lee,
Was that right before or right after the Civil War that you're talking about working at a gunsmith's?

Regards,
Kevin

 

[cxm]

Gene Williams can re-case harden...

FWIW

Chuck

Originally posted by m-1911:
I have a hammer and trigger from a 2nd Model 44 HE that were nicle plated. I want to have them stripped abd color case hardened. I was thinking of sending them to Ford's. Any other ideas?

 

[handejector]

Lee,
Was that right before or right after the Civil War that you're talking about working at a gunsmith's?

Regards,
Kevin

It was before, of course- that damned Sherman burned the shop, AND the schoolhouse down!
(that'll cost you, Kevin)

I think that sometimes the hardness/composition of the metal has a lot to do with the outcome of the casehardening.
....... I have had the same gunsmith do case hardening on other guns (Triple Locks, Registered Magnums, etc.) and the results were as good as anything that the Factory ever put out in their best prewar days. I live with the HD now, knowing that the color is as good as it can be.

Bob

Mr Bob,
To a slight degree, yes. It is more likely this one time just did not go well. Results will vary widely with the charcoal's composition, and whether it is "fresh", and the temperature achieved. So, you might try again, perhaps with someone different, and get better results.

There is very little chance of warping a small part that is more or less solid. Yes, I know triggers are hollow, but the sides are so close, they will heat up pretty evenly. Warping occurs when large or long, oddly shaped pieces heat UNevenly.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Bettis1, you're right. There was a fellow named Oscar Gaddy, recently passed, who was I think a chemistry professor, who made what amounted to a lifetime's stdy of CC. He used to post on one of the doublegun forums and his posts were very informative amd his work was beautiful.

As far as what colors can be achieved, a lot depends on the metal and a lot depends on the method. Colors can be acheived by heating the part to a temp below the critical (hardening temp) but to achieve the full range of colors the metal must be heated to the critical temp. To do it properly and to prevent warpage, the part must be annealed first. I got this stuff from reading Dr. Gaddy but the good ones that have been mentioned in above posts use essentially the same techniques.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Originally posted by Onomea:

I believe Ford's approach is to use a blow torch. Lefty had this done a while back. It's not bad looking, and is more economical, but it does not look the same as true case coloring/case hardening.

Arlo;

You are correct on all accounts. It was the first time I dabbled with the "blow torch" process as an alternative. The results weren't entirely disappointing but, at the same time when compared with true case color hardening, the smokey gradient or background we typically observe from that process is entirely absent. I imagine over time as the bright polished areas of the metal darken to a patina, that will transform the appearance somewhat closer to what a true color case hardening job should look like. The colors are truly brilliant (better than the photos show) but that smokey background look just isn't there. I wondered if they had blued it first or "browned" it first before torching, that it might have come out a bit closer to the actual process.

 

[DHENRY]

Lefty,
I've had re-case-hardening done by both Gene Williams and Horace Booth at Fords.
Have also seen the blowtorch technique's results on others' work.
Both Gene and Horace do as fine a job as the factory ever did.
Don

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Originally posted by DHENRY:
Lefty,
I've had re-case-hardening done by both Gene Williams and Horace Booth at Fords.
Have also seen the blowtorch technique's results on others' work.
Both Gene and Horace do as fine a job as the factory ever did.
Don

I think both of them are extremely talented artisans. But my understanding from Larna Ford Booth, is that they do not perform the process inhouse and sub the case hardening work out to another company. In my particular case, I didn't want to take the chance shipping the parts to a 3rd. party. She offered the torch process as an alternative to that. There are many equally talented restorers out there, everyone has their own preferences. Several of them mentioned previously, so I won't repeat them. Horace Booth at Ford's is one of the most talented contemporary restorers, in my recent personal experience. There have been many others, now all gone, who did very admireable work. When that happens, as it certainly will, you have to take a chance on someone new. I have no regret for doing that or reluctance for recommending Horace Booth at Ford's.

 

[DHENRY]

Lefty,
Just an interesting point of reference...
Gene tells me that he does all his own polishing and prep for nickel guns, but after the prep work is done, the guns go to Fords for plating.
The engraver Gene uses is, IMHO, the best around, bar none!
Takes a little more time, but he's worth it.
If Gene isn't worried about 'third party' work, I'm sure not.
On the last case-hardening I had Fords do, they sent it out for the full treatment.
Yes, it took lots of time (everything at Fords seeems to).
But...
It came back with superb coloration!
Smith and Wesson, as you know, has used David Chicoine for case-coloring of frames.
A lot of the work being sub-contracted by the better houses is due to EPA regs and the associated costs.
A 'one-stop' shop is a real expensive proposition!
Like everybody else, I would love to find a quick, easy, basement operation (mine) to do color case hardening.
LOL!
Don