case neck annealing

[elpac3]

Anybody doing case neck annealing? I have some rifle cases that are multiple reloads and starting to get a little "stiff". I have also started to venture into reforming cases.

Have contemplated annealing and have actually started looking at an anneal-ease annealing machine to do rifle cases.

Any experience or thoughts out there - willing to share some wisdom?

 

[Gamecock]

Unless you are dealing with exotic/expensive brass, it's not worth the trouble.

No need for a machine. Stand the cases in a pie plate of water. Heat necks with propane torch, topple to quench. Wear safety glasses cause high heat can cause strange things to happen.

Discoloration can be removed by tumbler polishing.

It will soften the brass and allow a few more loadings.

 

[M29since14]

One time curiosity got the best of me and I tried it. I had some old Remington .222 brass, just a few pieces. I can’t tell you how many times they had been loaded but it was a plenty. I made a little jig from a piece of tubing to hold the case so I could turn it easily while heating the neck with a propane torch. When the neck just started to glow a dark red, I dropped the case in a bucket of water. I then started loading the brass with my regular .222 load and shooting them for accuracy from the same rifle every time, while watching for cracks. After seven loadings I lost interest.

I did not notice anything unusual either in loading or in shooting. Accuracy was fine. I still have those cases and I load them every now and then just to see if they’re going to start cracking. I probably have ten loadings on them now and I think I have thrown away one. I always think about them when I hear people complaining about how bad Remington brass is - in their opinion.

 

[elpac3]

I have some .222 Remington brass that on reload #14. Just started experimenting with forming .221 fireball from .223 cases and need to anneal - hence the questions.

 

[DWalt]

Case necks get work-hardened after a few resizings and will eventually get brittle and crack. Newly-manufactured brass cases undergo neck annealing at the factory before loading (they use a gas flame). Cases are usually polished after neck annealing so there is no indication that it has been annealed. Military brass is not polished, and you can usually see the neck and shoulder coloration indicating annealing. Many favor annealing by dipping resized case necks into molten lead for a few seconds instead of using a propane torch.

 

[old&slow]

The method I use ,, a socket and a cordless drill ,,

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JefeULWk494[/ame]

I turn down the light so I can see the color change better. Give it about a 10 count and drop it in a bucket of water.

( edit: Not my video , just one I found.. I hold the flame at the neck / shoulder junction and watch for a light straw color to creep just past the shoulder. usually a 10 count for my flame setting)

A shooting buddy just purchased a automatic annealing machine ,, it takes just a few minutes to do a hundred brass. I figure a six pack,, a box of brass, and a visit..

 

[Gamecock]

An automatic machine seems extravagant.

 

[2152hq]

No need to get the brass to red heat, though that will certainly soften the brass. Maybe too much especially if you are forming a case.
You can get collapsed necks telescoping into the case instead of simply reforming or resizing as the brass is so soft it can't support itself in the operation.

A lead pot already mentioned was a popular way to anneal case necks at one time. Molten lead is only around 600F+. and it does the job nicely. Certainly 'red hot' brass in a propane flame isn't needed.




To relieve the brittleness and work hardening from repeated reloadings or case forming operations, I've always just handled each case by the base of it with my finger tips.
Roll the case so the neck only is just above the intense portion of the flame of a propane torch.
I do a 1,2,3,4 count as I roll the case and then just place them on the concrete floor of the basement where I'm working.
Placing them on a steel bench or other metal surface to draw the heat away will do as well.
That cools them quick enough and the heat never reaches by fingers or the body or base of the case.
If the case gets too hot to hold doing it this way,,you're holding it in the flame way too long.


No water pan to deal with, no wet cases to dry out afterwards, no gadgets to hold each case as it's annealed, no lead pot.
Fast and clean.

I don't anneal pistol cases anyway but I wouldn't use this method with the shortys!


I admit I don't do thousands of cases at a time, but I do sometimes anneal 50 to 100 at a time and do those with no problem or fatigue.
If I was running thru and reloading for an AR or some similar type of firearm that ate thousands of rounds and required annealing of same,,then one of the mechanical set-ups I've seen would probably be the answer.
Either that or just buy the ammo and sell the emptys.

 

[MichiganScott]

Author John Barsness worked with a retired metallurgist on annealing and wrote it up in Handloader #218 (August 2002). Essentially they used a candle with Tempilaq, held the case in their hand and twirled the neck in the flame for about 10 seconds. Then the case was set on a wet towel and the soot was wiped off when it cooled. This worked fine for annealing necks but probably does not heat the shoulder of the case enough for seriously changing calibers.

 

[DWalt]

At the factory, the cases pass very briefly under a series of gas flames, not long enough to get the case necks red hot. As I remember about 20 cases at a time are done. I have seen that operation performed at both Winchester and Federal, essentially the same way at both.

 

[Nemo288]

The socket driver and drill method is even easier to do than to describe.
I use the Hornady version as they sold a kit that contained some holders that are nothing
but socket drivers but with round interiors and textured so the case does go round and round.
There were 3 of these of different sizes and some 450F. Tempilaq.
Their method involves painting the Tempilaq about half way down the case.
I found that putting the brass in the holder and spinning it while holding the brush with the Tempilaq
on it to the case was the easiest and most accurate way to paint the cases.
The Tempilaq dries almost immediately.
Start your torch (you only need one) and set it on a flat steady surface.
Believe it or don't I do this next to a bathroom sink which has a good exhaust fan over it.
Put the painted brass in the holder, start the drill as slow as it goes and hold just the neck of the brass into the hottest part of the flame.
Watch the Tempilaq and just as soon as it starts to melt tip the case into water.
In my case that's the sink in front of me.
You can tell the necks are softer as a few will have dings from dropping them into the sink.

Most of the articles you may read on this recommend using 700 or 750F Tempilaq painted right on the neck.
I tried this and it's somewhat difficult to see right when it melts through the flame.
Either way ensures that the necks are all heated to the same temperature.
The other, easier, methods may leave you with necks of various bullet pulls.
Heating the brass red hot is too much and will leave it too soft.
Like I said, I could do most of a box of brass in the time it took me to type and proofread this composition.

Make sure you have decappped the cases first so the base gets cooled as fast as possible after heating.
This former 30-40 brass had to be annealed as the current neck was once the harder part in the middle of the case.
If you look closely you can see where the ring of Tempilaq was around the middle.
The only thing I could find that would dissolve the melted Tempilaq was acetone.
I have only annealed wildcat cases when forming them or a little later after one firing.
Never have annealed a regular revolver case and don't plan on ever doing so.

 

[bigedp51]

Some food for thought, the cases below were sized per the dies instructions. With no regard for minimum shoulder bump and the cases separated before the necks cracked.

The Science of Annealing — Facts Uncovered, Myths Busted
Annealing << Daily Bulletin

Below very little difference between annealing after 3 firings or after 10 firings.

Bottom line brass is a expendable item, and I have never annealed a single case. And at the Whidden custom die website they sell expapander kits with 5 expanders. These expanders are from bullet diameter to .004 under bullet diameter. Meaning if you do not anneal you can still control bullet grip.

 

[rockquarry]

Annealing, if done right will extend the useful life of brass. I was forced to do it years ago when forming .219 Zipper brass from .25-35 or .30-30 brass. Lot of trouble. Brass may be more expensive than ever, but amortizing the cost over its useful lifespan makes it a bargain. As for handgun brass, I've never heard of annealing it, but I guess it can be done.

 

[hdwhit]

Gamecock wrote:
Unless you are dealing with exotic/expensive brass, it's not worth the trouble.

I agree, especially with readily available types like 223 and 308.

If someone is going to do it anyway, then they might benefit from using a temperature indicating compound Tempilaq to learn where and how long to hold the flame before removing the case from the fire.

 

[Twoboxer]

In addition to the potential for extending brass life, annealing (properly done after each firing) returns the neck to the hardness level received from the factory.

That allows for consistent and light neck tension as well as maintaining the same snap-back characteristics after sizing and shoulder bumping that the brass originally had.

Proper resizing with minimum shoulder bump back can protect cases from premature head separation. Consistently annealed brass extends neck life while maintaining consistent, repeatable characteristics during hand loading and firing.

IMO, folks using mixed headstamp brass, not keeping brass together in lots treated equally, and not taking other "precision-oriented" steps during hand loading probably shouldn't bother.

 

[bigedp51]

Or be a cheap ba$tard like me and buy bulk once fired 5.56 and 7.62 cases.

.223/5.56 - Cleaned, Deprimed & Swaged - LC Only - 500 Pieces $59.00 free shipping

.223/5.56 Cleaned, Deprimed & Swaged Lake City Brass 500 Pieces

Annealing your brass depends on the type and quality of the rifle you are shooting and the quality of your cases. I have had Remington .223 cases with over .009 neck thickness variations. And Winchester cases that were not much better in neck thickness. And the Lake City cases are much better than Remchester cases and much cheaper.

Bottom line, too much of what benchrest shooters do filters down to the average reloader with a off the shelf factory rifle and is not needed. And if you read the link I posted if you do not neck turn neck hardness will vary between the thin and thick sections of the case neck.