Cast Bullets In Battle Rifles?

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Duckford

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I've started burning through my three cases of South Korean 7.62 NATO I recently purchased and am making plans for the brass. I see that there are sites selling surplus M-80 projectiles for $0.12 a piece and am thinking about making standard grade ammunition when I reload the brass at that price. But I'm always greedy when it comes to saving money, so I think about my super cheap cast bullet loading and the potential it may have. Which leads to the thread.

Has anyone tried using cast bullets in 308/7.62 NATO for auto loaders? What rifles, what cast bullets, was there leading in the gas systems, most of all what is the minimum load that will cycle reliably? I shoot PTR-91, M1a and FN FAL. The G3 might have potential because of no gas system to lead up, yet the FAL's gas adjustablility might be the key to cheap, low pressure lead rounds to extend case life and less powder.

Any experience and insight would be greatly appreciated.
 
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DO NOT use a cast lead projectile in a rifle that has a gas system

I know folks that made that mistake in order to save money

You could get away with it in the G3 family of rifles

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But why?

Look into using any of the coated lead projectiles. The polymer/powder coating/Hi-Tec coating keeps the lead out of the system
 
There are diy methods to coat your own cast bullets. Powder coating is one method. Do some searches.
 
Velocities are usually a little beyond what cast bullets are capable of, which is usually in the low 2000 ft/sec range. Maybe the coated bullets can go faster. I probably would not use cast bullets in any rifle using a gas port unless it can be easily disassembled for cleaning. At one time I was using cast bullets in a .30 Carbine, it worked OK, but I decided I didn't want to take any changes of clogging the port. Fooling around with a carbine's tappet chamber is to be avoided if at all possible.
 
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Coated lead bullets are cheap and lots of companies to choose from.
Just buy 100 for a test run to see how accuracy is and if they don't
work out the is always plated bullets to test out as a last resort
to save money on your loads, from the high end real copper bullets.
 
I have cast, loaded, and fired tens of thousands of lead alloy bullets in both handguns and rifles. I also own M1 Garand, M1A, M1 Carbine, and other gas-operated semi-auto rifles. I do not use, and I do not recommend cast bullets in gas-operated rifles because lead particles will pass through the gas port and build up within the mechanism, and disassembly and cleaning of the gas system is likely to significantly shorten the useful life of the rifle, and may result in damage to critical parts.

Other factors may also be involved. Some rifles (particularly the M1 and its derivatives) will function properly only with ammunition performing within a relatively narrow range of pressure and pressure curve that closely matches standard ball loads. Cast bullets are not generally capable of performing within those parameters, and continued use of non-standard ammunition can cause excess wear and/or damage to the gas piston, operating rod, and other critical parts.

I do load and shoot cast bullets in .308, .30-06, and other calibers. Those are used in bolt action, single shot, and other rifles not having gas operating systems. These meet nearly all of my needs for hunting and target shooting.

My Springfield M1A National Match 7.62 and my M1 Garand .30-06 rifles are fed only GI ball or equivalent handloads with jacketed bullets. You are free to use your own rifles any way you wish.
 
I have shot thousands of cast bullets in my M-1 Carbines, but they were gas checked.

I went to start another batch the other day and saw I needed gas checks. The price has skyrocketed from less than 1/2 cent in 1980 to around 3 to 5 cents (caliber matters) each. I just priced Berry's 220 grain plated spritzer boat-tail ($54/200 at Midway). Hech of a better way to go! But the "Pulls" at 12 cents should really be a NO-BRAINER! Order a thousand or other smallest quantity and try them soon, if they work for your style of fun, then buy 20 to 50K you will always be able to sell them!

Back In the early 80's, the Army went from 55gr FMJ/BT lead core bullets to 62 gr steel core. Winchester surplused around a billion 55's for $8.99/K, (.9 cents each!) Retail! To my shame, I only bought 21 K! I am down to last thousand left, and started looking for new stock. Cabela's had Hornady for $17/100, I almost cried right there in the store!

Ivan
 
Ivan the Butcher said:
I have shot thousands of cast bullets in my M-1 Carbines, but they were gas checked.

I went to start another batch the other day and saw I needed gas checks. The price has skyrocketed from less than 1/2 cent in 1980 to around 3 to 5 cents (caliber matters) each. I just priced Berry's 220 grain plated spritzer boat-tail ($54/200 at Midway). Hech of a better way to go! But the "Pulls" at 12 cents should really be a NO-BRAINER! Order a thousand or other smallest quantity and try them soon, if they work for your style of fun, then buy 20 to 50K you will always be able to sell them!

Back In the early 80's, the Army went from 55gr FMJ/BT lead core bullets to 62 gr steel core. Winchester surplused around a billion 55's for $8.99/K, (.9 cents each!) Retail! To my shame, I only bought 21 K! I am down to last thousand left, and started looking for new stock. Cabela's had Hornady for $17/100, I almost cried right there in the store!

Ivan
Click to expand...

You were ready to cry over $8??? :confused:
 
Mike said:
I use my cast bullets in my M1 Garands and M1 carbines regularly. Never clogged a gas port.(That's an old wive's tale anyway). Should be the same with your .308.
Click to expand...

This "old wive's tale" is well documented in the work of Colonel E.H. Harrison (NRA publications, 1950's to 1970's). The concern is not so much about clogging a gas port. The concerns are the internals of the gas cylinder and face of the operating rod. When leading builds up on these parts the forces required to cycle increase, applying excessive force to the operating rod and bolt in cycling, and harsh cleaning methods will be required to remove the leading, causing accelerated wear on critical parts.

These issues are more concerning today than 50 years ago. Back in those days surplus parts were readily available at very low cost, gunsmiths qualified to R&R the M1 gas cylinder were readily available for relatively low fees, and the rifles themselves were very common rather than the historical relics they have become. Today's owners of M1 Garands and derivative rifles have far more reason to avoid problems.

Your rifles, your decisions.
 
If you cast your own bullets, pc them and blast away.

If you buy cast bullets, buy the $.12 jacketed bullets.

PC'd bullets will not clog anything. They are excellent for things like cans, semi-auto & full-auto (gas guns), ported bbl's, etc. There's no leading with cast bullets that have been pc'd.

Gas checks can be expensive so I make my own gc makers. My 30cal gc maker was lent out and never came back (envelope with $$$ did come back). No big deal, simply made another 1. A can make gc's from al flashing for $2.50/1000gc's.
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I have loaded and shot cast in my Garand with very little problems, but I clean my guns after each session. You might find info here and try googling "M1 and cast bullets". CB Loads / Military Rifles
 
Many years ago(more than 20) I handloaded 30 Carbine ammo with lead bullets. I had an M1 30 Carbine and a Ruger Blackhawk and my intent was to use the lead bullet ammo in the Ruger. Of course I had to try it in the Carbine too. It was a disaster....I don't remember the details well but the bullets quickly began to fly in what was almost a "pattern". The rifle still functioned but the barrel was leaded up badly.

I bought the 30 Carbine Ruger during winter and took it to an indoor range. The muzzle blast was incredible and caused one group to leave the range. I never did that again.
 
I shot a variety of traditionally lubricated cast bullets in two SKSs twenty or more years ago. Nothing clogged up and ammo fed reliably. Cast bullets shot more accurately than the surplus ammo I purchased with the rifles.

The coarse open sights certainly go along with the overall crudeness of these guns, but I was amazed at how well the cast bullets shot. As I recall, bullets needed to be larger than regular .30 caliber bullets, .311" is probably a minimum diameter.

As a side note, anyone handloading for SKSs should have a spring kit (Brownell's) installed. Much safer and the likelihood of slam fires and full auto fire is greatly reduced, maybe even eliminated.
 
Not 7.62 NATO, but I have shot LITERALLY thousands of 158 grain 2R gas checked cast lead bullets through x39 chambered SKSs and ARs. Narry a problem. I use 2400 as propellant.
 
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