Cast Bullets Lube Question

[campfire]

I am getting a list of gear together so that I can start casting my own 357 magnum bullets.
As each day goes by the list seems to be getting longer and the choices more wide-ranging and complex.
The first piece of equipment I have decided on is the Lyman mould # 358477 which makes a 150 grain bullet. Lyman describe this one as a “Good mid-range bullet, Semi Wadcutter for 357 Mag and 38 Special”.
I am currently trying to decide which system to use for applying bullet lube.
The Lee Lube and Sizing Kit which is mounted in the Lee Bullet Sizer/ Reloader Press appears to be the cheapest and simplest option but I do like the look of the Lyman 4500 Lube Sizer although it is far more expensive.
It would appear that the Lyman is much more robust than the Lee set-up but it is unlikely that I would wear out either one too quickly as I don’t shoot large volumes of ammunition.
Do any of the cast bullet specialists here have any opinions about which system is the quickest, cheapest, easiest and the most effective to use; the Lee system which applies Alox tumbled onto the bullets or the Lyman set-up which applies the lube to the grooves in the bullet.
As always thanks for any helpful suggestions.
Campfire

 

[Skip Sackett]

Two different systems.

Camp,
I am excited for you on your new adventure.

For lubing equipment though, you have started to compare apples and oranges.

The Lee system is for use with their "tumble lube" and bullets. That being said, their lube will work on other types of bullets but it isn't the same type of lube used in the Lyman.

The Lyman uses lube "sticks" which can be purchased from other manufacturers and is applied into the "grease groove" on a conventional bullet via a pressurized reservoir.

To be honest, some folks don't even size their cast bullets. They simply lube with Lee Liquid Alox, allow them to dry, load them and shoot them. Others use their sizing dies with the Alox.

I have done both. I have two luber/sizers and several Lee sizing dies. I bought my equipment used on flea-bay. I have an OLD Lyman #45 and a newer OLD Lyman #450, both predecessors of the #4500. I got them for $50 each and the dies are interchangeable, even with the #4500(I think).

RCBS makes one along the same lines as the Lyman with a few differences. From what I hear, the Star (Magma) luber/sizer is the cat's meow for lubing bullets. It is quite pricey. Do an Internet search to see if you can find one.

The liquid alox can be purchased much cheaper than the 4oz bottle available from Lee. It is available in quart bottles from White Label Lube. Good stuff.

Hope this helps.

 

[aphelion]

If you want to know which is the quickest, cheapest, easiest way to size and lube bullets between the Lyman and the Lee system, that would be the Lee system. They are both effective in that they get the job done. There are some pros and cons between the two.

I started out with a Lyman 450 lube/sizer way back when and still use it for pistol bullets. It does a good job for the money.

Years ago, I started using the Lee system for rifle bullets. Rifle bullets are longer and when using softer alloys, they can be bent and distorted using a Lyman type sizer. The Lee pushes from the base of the bullet and allows the bullet to align in the die before being pushed through. Since you are starting with pistol bullets, this advantage won't matter to you as much. The main advantage to the Lee, besides being inexpensive, is that it is fast. It is no big trick to run 10-12 bullets a minute through the die. Lee suggests lubing the bullets before running them through the sizer, but I don't do that. I size them, them put them in a plastic container (an old cottage cheese carton works), squirt in the liquid lube, tumble them around to spread the lube evenly, them spread them out on some waxed paper to dry. It goes fast once you get the routine down.

The big disadvantage to the Lee method is that the lube is all over the bullet, not just in the grooves. You tend to get lube build up in the seater die. You have to stop and clean it out once in awhile, or it starts affecting the seating depth. Also, it will start gooing up your cases as it builds up in the die and rubs off. The lube is sticky and picks up dirt, so you have to careful to keep your ammo clean.

You can avoid the liquid lube hassle and still use the Lee sizer by lubing using the old Lyman "Kake-Kutter" method. You stand the bullets on their bases in a shallow pan and pour melted bullet lube in the pan until the lube is above the top of lube grooves. You let the lube cool, then cut the bullets out of the lube using the "Kake-Kutter". The Kake-Kutter is a close fit to the bullet diameter, so when you are done the lube is mostly just in the grooves.

After all this, I'd say if you don't mind spending the money on the Lyman machine, go with that. Mainly because it is easier to end up with ammo that is less messy. But if you want to spend less, you can get great results with the Lee set up.

One last comment about the Lee sizer dies. All the ones I've gotten were fairly rough inside. I'd suggest buying a die a thousandth under the size you want to size to and polish it out to where you want it. They work great after that.

 

[Rancher]

Having cast bullets on and off since 1975, here goes. If you are only going to cast a small number of bullets, then go with the Lee. The lubricator-sizers are definitely more expensive, unless you need to produce a large number of different bullet sizes. The key to minimizing cost is accurately measuring the diameter of the smallest cylinder throat and getting a sizing die that matches it, so that you don't have to buy a number of sizing dies searching for the right bullet fit. The Cast Boolits and Los Angeles Silhouette Club websites can help you here.

A very good and inexpensive lubricant is 50:50 beeswax and grease-gun moly lube, melted together in a double boiler. It is soft, and can be used with Lee, Lyman, RCBS, or ??? systems (Pour the molten lube into the reservoir and let it cool). With it, bullet lubrication is a snap in cold or warm weather.

Good luck!

 

[epj]

Despite the higher cost, I recommend getting the Lyman 4500 with the optional heater. I like to use one of the hard lubes that require heat to use. When they cool, there is no sticky mess. The time you save lubing with the liquid, you will spend cleaning excess lube off your finished cartridges, your dies, your guns, etc. Just my two cents.