Casting call: Roy Baker Pancake holsters

[rednichols]

Every pistolero today knows what a Baker pancake holster is, but we actually know surprisingly little about Roy himself. Here's some of the info I tracked down.

Roy Lee Baker lived 08 April 1922-07 July 1990 and was born in Arkansas. He married Fayma Davis age 16 in Emerson there in 1946. By 1960 he appeared in Rockford, IL in its city directory as a heat treater. It was from the listed city address there that he filed his "gun holster" patent in May of 1971 that was granted in May of 1973 as 3,731,858.

Those of us who were there can attest that the pancake took the industry by storm. Unfortunately for Roy his patent was drawn so narrowly -- it is for a holster that is ambidextrous and limited to three, not two, slots that have been stitched around -- that the industry quickly rallied with its own, non-infringing versions.

An American Handgunner article of Jan/Feb 1980 indicates that Roy left Roy's Custom Leather Goods in Magnolia, AR; an announcement made by its new president Calvin Porter. It has been claimed that this is the year that Roy sold up, and experience indicates that the old owner rarely stays on under new ownership.

There is other information floating 'round about Roy that I've not been able to corroborate and so I won't repeat it here.

Let's see your Baker brand Pancakes; here are two from my files:



And two of his marks:

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I have one.
Didn't shoot the back,
But it says - Roy's Leather Goods,
Magnolia, Arkansas
(Just like the picture above.)

 

[les.b]

Red:

Yep!! That was THE holster to have at one time. I had a couple back in the 70s, some time, and may still have them tucked around somewhere. We just couldn't get over how good they were at concealing a fairly large handgun, and held it tight to the body. I loved mine, but as you say, there were soon plenty of imitators out there. But I still remember fie real thing. I'll have to dig around and see if I still have one buried somewhere!!

Best Regards, Les

 

[Wyo]

I have one for a 4" N-frame Smith that I still use often. I've tried other designs over the years. One I like really well is by Simply Rugged, but I keep coming back to the Baker. I still haven't found one that accomplishes its purpose better than the Baker and most don't even do it as well IMHO.

 

[crazyphil]

Roy Baker the Pancake Maker. $8.75 in 1975. Shown here with my
S&W model 19 Combat Magnum.

PS Sorry no shot of the back. Mine says:
ROY'S LEATHER GOODS
MAGNOLIA, ARK.
PATENTED
19
S.6

 

[turnerriver]

I've bought and sold them over the years but never accumulated them. Here are some recent pass-throughs.
Regards,
turnerriver

 

[Iggy]

Packed a Model 58 off duty in one those for many years.

 

[WCCPHD]

I bought my first Roy Baker pancake holster in 1977 and fell in love with them. When I began my full time law enforcement career with the North Carolina Alcohol Law Enforcement Division I was issued a 2.5 inch Model 66-2 and a black, unlined, Roy Baker pancake holster. The State Bureau of Investigation, at that time, issued the same gun and same holster.

I don't have any current photo's of my Baker holsters, but I just did an inventory and I only have 17 now. I have holsters for J, K, and N frame S&W's. Some black, some a russet color, some lined, some unlined. I even have one that was made without a thumb snap for a six inch N frame.

I have seen/bought several that were purported to be "like" Baker's holsters but I have found that they all fall short. I think its mainly due to those making holsters now using a different type, more stiff, leather.

If someone would start making holsters like Baker with the same type of leather they would make a fortune. My niece has started working with leather and I gave her a couple of them to use as patterns. She has not gotten them exactly like Baker's holsters but is getting better.

Nothing I have ever tried, and I have more holsters than the law allows, has ever worked as well as the original Baker pancake holster. I can carry a 6 inch 29-3 all day while hunting and actually forget that I am carrying it and no one will ever see it.

 

[Walter Rego]

I have been a fan of Roy's Pancakes since the late 1970's

 

[majick47]

My only Roy Baker holster is an open top for my S&W J frames, 36/38/49, I'm keeping an eye out for the same style/model for my 2nd edition Colt Detective Special. As the other members have said it beats all the other holsters for comfort/concealability.

 

[357-RevolverGuy]

I've got these two made for K frames. For their age they've held up well.

 

[BE Mike]

The Roy Baker pancake was the first off duty holster I ever owned. I packed a Colt Satin Commander in it in the mid-70's. It was a concealable and comfortable holster. We weren't allowed semi-autos on duty, but off duty they were ok.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Roy Baker's pancake design was quite an innovation at the time. Overall, a very good and useful design for the purpose, well made of good materials.

Another innovative step was in marketing the holsters. "Floor plan" set-ups including a selection of holsters for popular handguns, along with counter-top display rack, were provided to dealers all over the country with generous financing plans allowing dealers to pay for their original orders as products moved out the door at retail pricing. In my opinion, this provided the means for Roy Baker to take the marketplace by storm.

Red Nichols is correct about the relatively narrow patent description allowing others to easily jump into the market with similar products. Bianchi, Safariland, Don Hume, and just about every other major company quickly adapted their own pancake-style holsters. The first holster I made (1972) was a pancake-style, and I always made a point of referring to these as my interpretation of the original design, crediting Roy Baker as the originator of the design concept.

Unfortunately, the business did not outlast Mr. Baker by more than a few years. I have seen reports of a liquidation sale with tools and equipment auctioned off, and "clicker dies" for all the various patterns being sold for scrap. A sad ending for sure, but an enduring legacy remains.

 

[P.44]

Found an older pic of one of Roy's Masterpieces:


Sorry, at the moment no (access to a) pic from the holster-backside. Out of my head it was stamped like
Red's and Phil's ("ROY'S LEATHER GOODS...") + "36" (= S&W M 36).
And the name "LEATHER + GOODS" seems to be his programm...

Here -Thanks to mikepriwer- you can see a pic of the holstermaker (last pic of the album)
and more of Roy's 1970's offerings:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/members/mikepriwer-albums-mlp8-roy-baker-1970s-clamshell-holsters.html

IMHO very very good (especially for the time !) cc-holsters. There must be a reason, why
(nearly) every holstermaker (once) offer(ed) "PANCAKES"...

P.44

 

[muzzleblast]

Red, thank you for the write up about Roy Baker.

I have some Original Pancake Holsters, but none significantly different than the pics already posted.

...Those of us who were there can attest that the pancake took the industry by storm. Unfortunately for Roy his patent was drawn so narrowly -- it is for a holster that is ambidextrous and limited to three, not two, slots that have been stitched around -- that the industry quickly rallied with its own, non-infringing versions...

It seems the term "pancake holster" is normally used to describe a two panel holster, generally having equally sized and shaped front and back panels (i.e. "50/50" construction) and having two or more belt slots, with slots being located both trailing and forward of the pocket.

...Unfortunately for Roy his patent was drawn so narrowly... ...and limited to three, not two, slots...

Let me ask, was the actual most important aspect, and utility, of Baker's design the location of a belt slot forward of the pocket? Or, was there "prior art" already demonstrating that feature?

Thanks

 

[les.b]

I can't seem to locate one of my original Roy Baker Pancakes right now, but it looks to me like Bianchi copied this design from the original Pancake, simply omitting the extra belt slot:



This is the gun (66 no dash, 2 1/2") I was issued when I was assigned to plainclothes duty, and I carried it in this holster for years. I have several of these, the others are lined, this one isn't.

Best Regards, Les

 

[rednichols]

Red, thank you for the write up about Roy Baker.

I have some Original Pancake Holsters, but none significantly different than the pics already posted.



It seems the term "pancake holster" is normally used to describe a two panel holster, generally having equally sized and shaped front and back panels (i.e. "50/50" construction) and having two or more belt slots, with slots being located both trailing and forward of the pocket.



Let me ask, was the actual most important aspect, and utility, of Baker's design the location of a belt slot forward of the pocket? Or, was there "prior art" already demonstrating that feature?

Thanks

Patents can be a crude club against competitors because the inventors, and the attorneys, rarely known enough about the prior art and therefore what is 'novel' to write them well. Baker's is an example of the inventor and his attorney not knowing how to draft a patent that protected what Roy actually created.

Patents include the claims, the specification, and the drawings; the latter two illuminate the claims and it is the claims that are controlling. In Roy's case his first (independent) claim is limited to a reversible holster, and all the others to a three-slot holster.

That third slot was not, and is not, the selling point of his design. Some makers thought they needed to avoid stitching around the slots, which is where these came from, using a tunnel:





I recall that Safariland did it that way, too, in the Seventies. I've no pics.

It would not be correct to say that a pancake holster is defined as having the same size panel front and back; though that is what Baker patented. I'd define it as having at least one slot on either side of the pocket, and entirely covering the frame and barrel. Less coverage is called a slide. Avengers are a different kettle of fish though they were created to compete with the pancake (the loop on the back creates the second outboard slot). One could even do a pancake with a single folded panel, with the slots either side, but gain nothing and lose cutting economy.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I learned somthing today . i had never seen an open top Roy Baker Pancake before, maybe they were a regional preference. And all of mine, and all I've seen have the Roys Leather Goods mark.

As noted above, the third slot was rarely used . And the people who did usually stuck with that. Not switching back and forth.

Not commented yet in this thread, Roy's holsters had open bottoms while most of the knockoffs have closed bottoms . By not having any extranous leather beyond the actual muzzle of the gun, it contributes to the outstanding concealability.

 

[GerSan69]

Simply Rugged makes pancakes that look an awful lot like Roy's. They use three slots and the stitching pattern is quite similar as well.

 

[muzzleblast]

Patents can be a crude club against competitors because the inventors, and the attorneys, rarely known enough about the prior art and therefore what is 'novel' to write them well. Baker's is an example of the inventor and his attorney not knowing how to draft a patent that protected what Roy actually created.

So, in the bigger picture, by being overly prescriptive in the patent claim; Baker and his attorney missed the opportunity to patent the concept of a holster design with THE 'novel' feature of belt slots either side of the pocket, both trailing and forward. Or, am I missing something?