Sorry if this is an old subject but it sounds like a great idea to cut down expenses and the need to carry more cards in the process. I can not take credit for this idea but why not endorse each person's Driver's License with a CCW or whatever your state labels it and eliminate the second card issue. Its done for Motor Cycle riders now and for other reasons too. I'm interested as to how other States accomplish this and am hoping N.C. will consider this change. The D. L. already has your photograph. Your thoughts and Ideas are always appreciated!
CCW Endorsement on Driver's License
- Thread starter smitholdtimer
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ogilvyspecial
Member
Back when I used to hang out on a local gun forum this same question came up,
and while I have no opinion one way or the other, lot's of others sure did.
Someone had mentioned that there are times that they are required to
show their DL to people, at places, where they would rather not have
"those people" know that they posess a license to carry a gun.
I can't remember the places that they listed off where they would rather not have them
know, but I could see the logic behind their position after they posted their "list."
and while I have no opinion one way or the other, lot's of others sure did.
Someone had mentioned that there are times that they are required to
show their DL to people, at places, where they would rather not have
"those people" know that they posess a license to carry a gun.
I can't remember the places that they listed off where they would rather not have them
know, but I could see the logic behind their position after they posted their "list."
OP
Ogy
Appreciate the reply and I do see the point, surely a consideration.
Appreciate the reply and I do see the point, surely a consideration.
StatesRightist
Member
I'm hoping NC passes Constitutional Carry, it's predicted to this year. That will end the BS all together.
Bad idea IMO,
this state, Indiana, has no requirement to tell, and I would only announce IF I were asked to leave the vehicle.
Today very few LEO's are gun people, and some do not always react well to the announcement.
In addition, too many places want to use your drivers license as an ID card. Being a crotchety old fart, I refuse to use my DL in that manner. I will show a Military ID.
this state, Indiana, has no requirement to tell, and I would only announce IF I were asked to leave the vehicle.
Today very few LEO's are gun people, and some do not always react well to the announcement.
In addition, too many places want to use your drivers license as an ID card. Being a crotchety old fart, I refuse to use my DL in that manner. I will show a Military ID.
Missouri has the option to show CCW on the driver's license or issue a separate ID. I chose to keep them separate so that when I need to show my DL, I am not tipping my hand that I may be armed. I consider it part of my don't tell policy. A Missouri LEO will see it when he runs the DL because it is in the same database.
OP
Required in N.C
We are required to show the CCW along with the Driver's License upon being stopped by LEO so there is no option for those of us in the Old North State! Thanks for all the replies.
We are required to show the CCW along with the Driver's License upon being stopped by LEO so there is no option for those of us in the Old North State! Thanks for all the replies.
mkk41
US Veteran
In many states , they are regulated and issued by 2 seperate agencys. Here in PA , tour D/L comes via the state DMV and License to Carry Firearms by your county sheriffs dept.
Each agency in most states is screwed up enough.
Ever have to deal with your states Dept of Motor Vehicles?
Besides , many people who carry do not drive or have drivers licenses. A Drivers license is a privledge. Drivers licenses can also be suspended for civil infractions which do not have any bearing on a persons right to carry a firearm , or drive a car for that matter..
Each agency in most states is screwed up enough.
Ever have to deal with your states Dept of Motor Vehicles?
Besides , many people who carry do not drive or have drivers licenses. A Drivers license is a privledge. Drivers licenses can also be suspended for civil infractions which do not have any bearing on a persons right to carry a firearm , or drive a car for that matter..
Sledge276
US Veteran
When I read the original post, I thought "wow, that's a good idea." Oklahoma is just now beginning to put veteran endorsements on DL's. As I understand, they are puting a small American flag on the front of the DL. I was thinking since they now have the equipment for that, maybe they could do the CCP endorsement on the DL's.
After reading the other posts, I see the point of keeping CCP's seperate from DL's. Asside from there being places that you wouldn't want to "tip your hand" as someone said, OK DL's are issued by DOT and CCP's are issued by OSBI. OSBI takes about 2 months to complete the background checks and issue the cards. And that's after the 2 weeks it takes the sheriffs office to complete the local background check and send the packet to OSBI.
After reading the other posts, I see the point of keeping CCP's seperate from DL's. Asside from there being places that you wouldn't want to "tip your hand" as someone said, OK DL's are issued by DOT and CCP's are issued by OSBI. OSBI takes about 2 months to complete the background checks and issue the cards. And that's after the 2 weeks it takes the sheriffs office to complete the local background check and send the packet to OSBI.
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Ogandydancer
Member
MKK41 beat me to it; they are issued by two seperate agecnies, that still doesn't stop them from showing up when they run your D/L. Also I wouldn't want some of the people who I have to show my D/L to to know I am carrying.
As a life long 2 nd admendment rights fighter and retired cop, I think that idea is bad for several reasons. When I first went into police work almost 100% of the cops were former military, gun collectors, hunters and all pro-gun.
That was in the early 70's. I saw it go almost 70% the other way with working cops backing gun control. My question to them was what in the hell would they do the day they retired? I promise you that not one of them said they would quit carrring as they knew they had many people who would cause them trouble.
How would you want your anti-gun Denist know that you had a CCW before your tooth surgery?
That was in the early 70's. I saw it go almost 70% the other way with working cops backing gun control. My question to them was what in the hell would they do the day they retired? I promise you that not one of them said they would quit carrring as they knew they had many people who would cause them trouble.
How would you want your anti-gun Denist know that you had a CCW before your tooth surgery?
Hill_Country
Member
I like the separate drivers license like permit issued by Texas. I keep my weapon concealed and don't advertise that I carry.
The exception is when I'm in (very anti-gun) England and asked for ID when using a credit card or something. I just can't help giving them my CHL. Guns are such a novelty - at least with the law abiding - that it usually gets quite a reaction. Certainly an ice breaker in a pub.
FWIW, now that they've "solved" the gun problem over there, they're going after knives. Some people are just delusional.
The exception is when I'm in (very anti-gun) England and asked for ID when using a credit card or something. I just can't help giving them my CHL. Guns are such a novelty - at least with the law abiding - that it usually gets quite a reaction. Certainly an ice breaker in a pub.
FWIW, now that they've "solved" the gun problem over there, they're going after knives. Some people are just delusional.
The Tourist
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I would like to have my CCW status show up on my drivers license, but for a singular selfish reason.
I ride a custom Harley, and let's just say my past is "checkered." I get pulled over two or three times per riding season, and our LEOs are still figuring out how they want/need to approach legally armed citizens. I have already been stopped last year on a bike, and all I could think of was to put my hands up over my head.
If I get pulled over, and I'm peaceful, not making any furtive movements, and the LEO knows in advance that I am carrying because that status shows up on his dash-computer, then there won't be any "mistakes."
The polar idea is our rights as citizens. It's nobody's business if we own, carry or use firearms. So my personal conflict is, "Do I make my life easier at the expense of society?"
I ride a custom Harley, and let's just say my past is "checkered." I get pulled over two or three times per riding season, and our LEOs are still figuring out how they want/need to approach legally armed citizens. I have already been stopped last year on a bike, and all I could think of was to put my hands up over my head.
If I get pulled over, and I'm peaceful, not making any furtive movements, and the LEO knows in advance that I am carrying because that status shows up on his dash-computer, then there won't be any "mistakes."
The polar idea is our rights as citizens. It's nobody's business if we own, carry or use firearms. So my personal conflict is, "Do I make my life easier at the expense of society?"
OP
You have convinced me to change my mind
Now that I have had the opportunity to read all the valid reasons for not having them combined I'll have to retract my opinion of it being a good idea. I thank you all who offered convincing reasons, your points are received and understood!
Now that I have had the opportunity to read all the valid reasons for not having them combined I'll have to retract my opinion of it being a good idea. I thank you all who offered convincing reasons, your points are received and understood!
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I am NOT fond of putting CCW designation on Drivers Licenses!. We have to show our drivers license too many times these days as ID to too many people and it is none of their business that I am carrying concealed. I choose not to let clerks, store owners, movie theater personnel, town clerks, etc. know that I am packing. If I go out of State and need to show ID to a Hotel clerk, Airline or Ship Crew It's just none of their business IMHO. Personally, I'll go through the effort to carry one more card!
Chief38
Chief38
The Tourist
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I agree as far as "convenience." However, do you want to run the risk of a rookie cop, surprised and panicked, because he just found out the guy he's talking to is armed?
Ask any cop, domestic confrontations are the scariest. No one knows what's going to happen.
And of all the cops I know as friends or clients, my last interface was with a new cop to my area. For all he knew, I was Sonny Barger.
I did not know what he was thinking, and he came up from behind me and he had a gun. We talk about this calmly and academically here on the forum. Now imagine that scenario in real life. Does this change your opinion?
Hill_Country
Member
My understanding is that in Texas the CHL comes up when they run a license plate, plus, we have a duty to inform and present our CHL when asked for ID.
I would think that most cops would figure out that a CHL holder who lays out about $250 for an application and ten hours of training and has a background check is a pretty law abiding citizen. Logic would say an officer could be more relaxed when dealing with a CHL holder than, say, some gang-banger with an AK47 down the leg of his oversized pants.
A few years ago I had to have my prints redone for my CHL renewal and the local (very small town) police chief, who I knew well, said he would do them. While we were back in the booking area the local hotshot state DPS trooper decided to tell everyone how to handle a CHL traffic stop. His policy was get the CHL holder out of the vehicle, hands up and he would remove the weapon if it was being carried on body. After he completed any paperwork, he would return the weapon - unloaded and all the rounds loose and might insist everything be locked in the trunk.
The chief and other officers all kind of rolled their eyes, but no one said anything. Logic just doesn't apply with some people. No matter what you do it may be wrong.
I would think that most cops would figure out that a CHL holder who lays out about $250 for an application and ten hours of training and has a background check is a pretty law abiding citizen. Logic would say an officer could be more relaxed when dealing with a CHL holder than, say, some gang-banger with an AK47 down the leg of his oversized pants.
A few years ago I had to have my prints redone for my CHL renewal and the local (very small town) police chief, who I knew well, said he would do them. While we were back in the booking area the local hotshot state DPS trooper decided to tell everyone how to handle a CHL traffic stop. His policy was get the CHL holder out of the vehicle, hands up and he would remove the weapon if it was being carried on body. After he completed any paperwork, he would return the weapon - unloaded and all the rounds loose and might insist everything be locked in the trunk.
The chief and other officers all kind of rolled their eyes, but no one said anything. Logic just doesn't apply with some people. No matter what you do it may be wrong.
Sledge276
US Veteran
" After he completed any paperwork, he would return the weapon - unloaded and all the rounds loose and might insist everything be locked in the trunk."
Some people's kids...
If it's unloaded and locked in the trunk, I just wasted a bunch of hard earned money getting a CHL. And what am I supposed to say to a BG? "Don't rob me or shoot me yet, I gotta get my gun out of the trunk and load it first."
Some people's kids...
If it's unloaded and locked in the trunk, I just wasted a bunch of hard earned money getting a CHL. And what am I supposed to say to a BG? "Don't rob me or shoot me yet, I gotta get my gun out of the trunk and load it first."
Faulkner
Member
I would agree that there are fewer than there used to be, but saying very few LEO's are gun people is an overstatement.
Suggest you
talk to some of your academy instructors. Perhaps today with so many in the current wars the number has gone up, and I do not have the contacts I had years back. What would you say the percentage is today?
talk to some of your academy instructors. Perhaps today with so many in the current wars the number has gone up, and I do not have the contacts I had years back. What would you say the percentage is today?
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