CNC mini mill/lathe

[mwtdvm]

I am going to retire in a couple of years and have this crazy idea that I can teach myself CNC machining. I want to start small as I know this may be a "pipe dream". Does anybody have any of these machines and have advice as to which ones to buy/avoid and are there any good sources for a DIY guy to learn how to "make it go"?

It seems that lots of stuff now days breaks because somebody made a substandard component and there may be a market to replace that part with one that works and lasts..

 

[VPNAVY]

Until someone pipes in - jump over to Google and enter Search Terms: CNC machining guns

 

[Moonman]

mwtdvm,

You're anticipating a major undertaking sir.

You could possibly INQUIRE of a Community College or a General College on any CNC type courses or Seminars offered on the subject.
I'm a retired machinist and this is a DYING TRADE IN THIS COUNTRY.

You would be need to possess Engineering Skills with the redesign of parts and materials.

The redesign might include material selection, heat treating, to even modern coating treatments.

You would need GUNSMITH SKILLS.

You would need MARKETING & INTERNET SKILLS.

You would need Machinist skills such as Blueprint making, and reading.
The use of machinist tools and instruments.

A BASIC Machinist APPRENTICESHIP used to be a 4 year learning experience.

CNC equipment uses different languages, depending upon its manufacturer.

The equipment costs will be THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. The TOOLING and TOOLS will be thousands more.

This is small too, as you could invest tens of thousands to millions for large equipment.

CNC equipment can be EXPENSIVE to repair when something goes wrong or an electronic board goes out.

You would have to learn PROPER BASIC MACHINING PROCEDURES, as the CNC equipment just does what YOU TELL IT TO DO.

Many things designed now are just THROWAWAY PRODUCTS as labor costs are just too much to repair them,
say a plastic firearm for $250-$550 vs say a fine Revolver like an old S&W model 27.

BEWARE OF EQUIPMENT SALESMEN, especially if you're not already a machinist/engineer to question them properly, as
they do TELL AND PROMISE TALL TAILS to get a product sale from you.

YOU NEED TO TELL THEM WHAT TO SHOW YOU IN ACTION!

Remember, companies spend thousands of dollars and sometimes take months to produce
SLICK VIDEOS AND SALES PRESENTATIONS for you to watch.

BUYER BEWARE!

Good Luck with your choices.

MOONMAN

 

[kcode]

Save yourself some time, agony, and money and find a older Bridgeport vertical mill with optics and a bench lathe and enjoy your retirement.

 

[pinduck]

Who will do the programming for the CNC equipment? you will need to be experienced in that regard or able to hire it done.

 

[Rule3]

Buy a Kirby, they do it all!

 

[NYlakesider]

CNC can get very involved. My son had 2 years of machining at a good rated community college and went to work at a respected machine shop in our area. His leader was extremely sharp and taught him a lot.

He has also gone to Mazak School (Mazak large company that makes CNC equipment) two times and is now foreman of vertical milling has 12 men and a few million dollars of equipment to take care of. From what he says he is still learning as technology evolves and will be going back to Mazak School at company’s expense for another course.

Like another said on here get a Bridgeport lathe and some other good smaller equipment.
PS TIG welding skills and equipment will come in handy.

 

[A10]

If this is a retirement hobby, you would be looking at a pretty big investment in equipment, not to mention the programming and engineering training you would need. You honestly would be better off getting an older Bridgeport and learning machining skills. Doing it the old fashioned way is a ton of fun! Make sure you have adequate power to your place though, they do suck up some juice!

 

[venomballistics]

CNC coding is akin to programming in ASM.
CNC = many gallons of coffee and several bottles of aspirin before any level of success will be realized.
that layer of programming is added to an already specialized skill set of machining related knowledge.
your far ahead going old school and leaving the programming layer out of the crash course.

 

[mwtdvm]

You guys are GREAT!!

I can see that I would be embarking on another long and steep learning curve and at this point in my life I have about had enough of that. I'll look for an old used machine and see what happens.

 

[wheelgun28]

If you have the money to spend look into either a Bridgeport EZTrack or arguably better a Trak bedmill.

These machines have both manual and cnc controls. They are real machine tools (as much as this size can be) or at least they are common in industry.

CNC is a wonderful thing it allows things do be dont in short order that would have taken days of elaborate set ups with angle vise set with sine bars and rotary tables.

The first time you cut a radius or pocket mill you see what I mean.

Programming isnt what is once was, canned cycles and CAD CAM with post processors make it much simpler.

If you want to start out find a cad system and learn how to use it before you buy a machine. Then you can machine the part virtually and see how you did.

Like most things you will be doing it as a hobby and for the sake of learning something new. It will be difficult to make money with this endeavor.

I am in the machine tool industry

 

[forresth]

I am learning CNC more or less by my self (going through the books and asking a few questions). Right now I am working on a 58 tool turret punch machine, and hopefully once I prove myself, I'll also learn to work with a Plasma cutter and a Laser cutter.

The hardest part with the punch machine is dealing with that archaic software. The machine was new in 85 and the last software update came in 90 I almost think it would be easier to type in the G code (machine language) directly.

The cheapest CNC type thing to get into would seam to be the router/plasma kits I see starting under $5k (plus tools and steel) if you are a good welder.

one thing to watch out for when letting the computer drive, is it can sometimes really mess up, destroying tools equipment and material.

 

[ohiococonut]

You didn't say if you wanted to machine wood or metal so I assume metal. I myself own a 3 axis wood cnc router which I'm in the process of converting to a 4 axis. I initially wanted to buy a metal machine but decided wood was more of what I'm interested in, and what I can produce is only limited by my imagination and the size of my machine, literally. Having been in heavy industrial maintenance for over 34yrs, 24yrs as a supervisor I do have mechanical/engineering abilities and it only took me a couple of months to understand and produce 3D cnc machined signs/plaques, etc. If you're not looking for a very heavy expensive old school machine look at Grizzly machines. They have milling/lathe cnc combo's.

First you need to decide how many axis you wish to machine, 3,4 or 5, and the cost associated with it. Not only will you have the cost of a machine, you'll have just as much if not more in tooling when all is said and done. You don't necessarily have to be able to write G-code but you need to have an understanding of it. There are programs out there that will do most of the conversion work but your drawings Must be accurate. And just as with wood you need to understand the limitations associated with the machine/tooling, the properties of different metals, speeds/feeds, and terminology etc. Being able to visualize and understand 3&4D cad/cam is a must. There is a long list of things you'll need to learn, much have already been discussed, but if you don't have a strong mechanical/engineering background, it's going to be a long hard road. And as you start learning, more and more questions will come up. Keep notes...LOT'S of notes. I've seen a lot of people on other forums I frequent asking simple questions "I" think they should have already known before investing heavily in a machine. For some it's a very steep learning curve because they've taken the plunge just because there's water. Other's are finding out it's deeper than they thought, and still other's like myself continue to dive to the bottom. I'm not saying it can't be done, because I'm doing it, still learning and loving it, but you might want to take a long hard look at what it's going to require monetary And time wise. It's a big investment all the way around and you'll only get out of it what you put into it.
There are free trial programs you can download to practice virtually and get an understanding of what's involved and you can look on you tube for videos as well. Read and ask as many questions as you can BEFORE committing to buying a machine. Then, if you're still interested decide what the largest piece is you want to machine and go from there.
Home cnc machining is not only gaining in popularity it's also become more affordable. It can be a daunting task but don't give up, dreams do come true if your persistent enough. The internet is a fantastic source of info and much can be learned from everyone's mistakes so take advantage of it.
As one person posted, making money at it can prove to be difficult, but not impossible. If that's your intent you'll also need to look at your area and see what kind of "real" potential there is, whether it's metal or wood, and will it be sustainable profit. As for me I do it as a hobby for family and friends for now and thoroughly enjoy it. That's my 2 cents, best of luck to you.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...mwtdvm...check out the website in my link below. Everything machine tool related you'll ever need or want to know is on that site...including a gunsmith specific forum and lots of old hands willing to help.

Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

 

[wheelgun28]

Thats a good forum but its more for pros. They dont really like folks discussing "home shop" sized equipment. "D" will be on you like skin on puddin...

Theres a few other sites more home shop friendly, like homeshop machinist, or Chaski (?)if thats still around. Yahoo has or had a bunch of groups dedicated to this also.

...mwtdvm...check out the website in my link below. Everything machine tool related you'll ever need or want to know is on that site...including a gunsmith specific forum and lots of old hands willing to help.

Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

 

[Catshooter]

The Sherline Lathe, Milling Machine and Precision Miniature Machining Page

I can recommend their manual machines most highly. They also can be set up for CNC, either before you buy them or after.


Cat

 

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

There are many small and hobby CNC's that you can throw a few hundred dollars at to start makings signs, artwork and other modest widgets. Plenty of good forums and free ware. Don't be afraid of G-code or programming. If you can manage this forum and service your own cars, guns, etc. you've got the necessary skills. If your a bit clever and can pick up on the basic electronics (&/or take a few classes as suggested) you'll have the option of building your own not quite perfect but adequate machine or finding some pennies on the dollar deals... ONLY they can get very expensive real fast to move and repair. Drives and spindles are typically in the $10-20K range. However.. a CNC or better yet, a water jet can be a stand alone business in itself. Water jets are very light weight CNCs that drag a mixing head around... the greater expense for those is the pump and its maintenance. Start small. My cousin built his own 2' x 2' and is happily cranking out signage, plastic parts and relief work.