Cold chills

[cbrobertson]

I have cold chills reading many posts on gun boards. All the talk of cutting barrels, filing sights, cutting trigger guards, etc, etc.
I think back over the years when I too have ruined perfectly good guns, mostly rifles, "customizing" them. Have turned several $700.00 rifles into $300.00 rifles.

Smith & Wesson makes the best handguns (revolvers) in the world. Personally I see no advantage in changing anything on them.

That is why when purchasing a new 617 it was difficult to choose between the 4 & 6 inch barrel models. SOOO!! Just buy BOTH!! Taking delivery on the 4 inch Saturday, 01-June and the 6 inch (hopefully, if it comes in) on 01-July.
Will attempt to post a S&W family photo in July.

 

[Breechloader]

Rich people problems

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

My favorites are stippling plastic pistols and jeweling revolvers. And let's not forget porting barrels. To each his own, but it drops their value. And for me, I wouldn't consider buying them once they've been "personalized" in that manner (unless the price was crazy cheap).

 

[Green Frog]

Folks, they're tools!! If you are going to use them, it is certainly worth your while to make them more useful. I don't suggest buying a pristine example of some older, discontinued model and randomly chopping it up, but with currently produced or less-than-perfect older examples that will actually be used, making thoughtful, utilitarian improvements can be a good thing. Then the remaining NIB or original configuration pristine examples will be worth even more because of their rarity. JMHO, YMMV.

Froggie

 

[cbrobertson]

Rich people problems

Not rich, just don't do any other recreational activities.

Tools? Yes, if they fit that category. Today mine are all toys. No longer professional use. Even when they were 'tools,' never seen any need to modify as issued. The CAR 15/203 & 1911 never needed modifications of any kind.

 

[Warren Sear]

Then there are the guys who have to "refinish" everything. Cold blue, sand the grips and slap on some varnish. Another Bubba gun. Even worse are the spray painted guns. Then all the verbal "high fives" on thread after seeing the pictures and telling the guy how great it looks.

 

[finesse_r]

Not All Modifications Are The Same....

I have cold chills reading many posts on gun boards. All the talk of cutting barrels, filing sights, cutting trigger guards, etc, etc. I think back over the years when I too have ruined perfectly good guns, mostly rifles, "customizing" them. Have turned several $700.00 rifles into $300.00 rifles. Smith & Wesson makes the best handguns (revolvers) in the world. Personally I see no advantage in changing anything on them.

Like any gross generalization there is some truth to what you say but plenty I disagree with as well.

Granted some aftermarket custom work especially porting of concealed carry guns appears downright silly and wasteful to me. I also share your distaste for guns that have been butchered by aftermarket modifications.

However, no gun manufacturer can make guns that are suited to everyone's needs. I Agree S&W is one of the finest gun makers today, along with Ruger and a couple of others. My personal preference runs to S&W third generation semi-autos and pretty much a tie with Ruger and S&W for revolvers. That does not mean they are the best, just for me they are what I like and trust.

I have a couple of M64 that were police issue that have the worst triggers of any of my guns including my Rugers. Now should I just live with that or is it OK with you if I do a trigger job on them?

I have several S&W N frame revolvers with blocky style black target sights and some K/L frame with just plain silver ramp sights that are difficult for my old eyes to see. Is it alright with you if I put some nice red ramp front sights on them?

I also have a couple of older SS S&W revolvers with serious scratches and some rust under the grip (yes SS will rust) that I picked up at a gun show for a good price. Is it alright with you if I polish them up do a deep cleaning on them and replace the but* ugly target grips that are too large for my needs? They are actually mechanically very sound and tight, but were just left out in a truck or in some tackle box I guess.

As I have aged I developed arthritis in my hands which is making me more and more recoil sensitive. Is it OK for me to put Pachmayr rubber grips that cover the blackstrap on them which greatly reduces the felt recoil?

Also I truly like three inch revolvers, but many of them especially a M610 and the M625 are quite pricey. If I ever pick up a really cheap 5 inch version of a 610 I may well have a gun smith cut the barrel and recrown it. So far I have not seen one where it would be cost effective to do so, so I keep looking for a 610 that is priced where I am willing to buy it.

There may be a situation where I would have a cylinder cut to take moon clips, if I found just the right gun at just the right price so it would be cost effective. So far I have not.

To date my after market modifications have been for sights easier to see, triggers easier to pull, and grips to reduce felt recoil, but frankly once I buy a gun I own it and feel it is mine to modify as I see fit, even if that modification reduces its value to the general public.

I do agree with you that some of the modifications, especially some of the do-it-your-self modifications can turn a 700 dollar gun into a 300 dollar gun, but that is most often a function of limited intelligence in that specific instance, and should not be used to make light of all after market modifications.

Even S&W will do after market improvements on their own guns for a price, so I don't consider mass manufactured guns to be some kind of holy grail that cannot be improved upon. Remember not all people are the same in their likes and dislikes.

To summarize you cannot lump all modifications into one basket and label them all as good or label them all as silly and wasteful.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Well, like I already said, "to each his own."

BTW, I think the reason S&W does aftermarket "enhancements" is for the purpose of making more money. And I agree that not all modifications are bad ones. And as I pointed out, it's your gun so you can screw it up (or improve it) anyway that makes you happy.

 

[deanodog]

Different strokes for different folks. They are your guns so do as you please with them.

 

[AveragEd]

As I've stated before, revolvers are "old school" firearms to me. Given that and especially in the case of a pre-IL, pre-MIM six-shot S&W revolver, the logic of any permanent modification is questionable.

Now, "bolt-on" changes are okay with me. Things like different stocks can easily be changed back, so no harm, no foul. I like Millett rear sights and have them on several S&W revolvers but the original ones are tagged and labeled with the gun they belong on.

There is another thread about the DYI conversion of a 6" full-lug no-dash or -1 617 into a 5" half-lug gun. While that would make for a nice revolver if done right, I question using a highly sought-after gun that is experiencing escalating value as the test mule.

But then, I'm an olde pharte...

Ed

 

[cbrobertson]

Well, guess I have learned to keep personal observations to myself.

 

[Nframecollector]

To each his own is right. I will make modifications if it helps the useability of it. I do all my own trigger work whether its single action or double action. I also like jeweled hammers and triggers.

 

[old bear]

Rich people problems

Trust me on this one. If you're going to have a problem that is the one to have.

 

[Green Frog]

Well, guess I have learned to keep personal observations to myself.

Not to pile on or belittle; you have the right to your own opinion and to do with your guns as you wish (pending further legislation from Washington, of course! ) I was surprised to see in your previous post as examples of guns that need no change the Model 1911 and the M-16. I'm sure you are aware that whole forums are devoted to the alteration, customization, personalization and outright mutilation of these two platforms... in fact there is quite an industry for each devoted to bare frames upon which to build one's own interpretation of what they want from the basic design, as well as many parts and accessory makers. As I said, I would think long and hard about making any change to a pristine example of any old and valuable firearm (S&W or other) but since I get most of my guns for me to shoot, I want them to be what I want them to be. I think we probably agree more than we disagree here, though.

Froggie

 

[tgmr05]

It all depends, in reality. Someone taking a 3 inch mint 66 and chopping the barrel to 2 or 2 1/2 inch and stippling the grip frame and chopping the hammer, followed by baking on some spray painted black finish, well, that is just stupid. You could sell the 3 inch 66 and buy a well used 2 1/2 to chop up, and have enough to buy some ammo, too.

On the other hand, if you find a pd trade in, beat up cosmetically 65-2 4 inch square butt, and chop the barrel to 3 inch and round butt the grip frame, and polish it up as well as can be, well, you have a 3 inch round butt 65, probably spent less than a stock 3inch 65, and have some attachment to it, if the work is done well enough.....

So, it really depends......

 

[Bill56]

First off, let me state that I'm new to the S&W revolver disease. But, I'm in agreement with finess r. With mya againg eyes, I have put some orange paint on the front sight of my M28-2. I just picked up a pair of Pachmyer grips for my M29-2 to help tame my hot hunting load, but I sure like how the wood target grips look better and they are not uncomfortable to use with more moderate loads. Would I do/have a trigger job done if needed? Yeah, I would, but my guns are for shooting/hunting. In other words, I don't want or need some crazy light trigger pull. Those are about the only things I'd change on mine.

 

[03Fatboy]

Hey, that's your opinion and I'm okay with that just don't expect everyone to agree with you as modifications are highly personnel and subjective to the end user. Many will make modifications and could care less about value as its not for sale and when that owner is gone gone,we'll, they won't care and they enjoyed it as it suited them. But, I may be in the minority, I suspect there are some olde "phartes" on here that will certainly agree with you. We all have our thresholds I guess.

BTW, I only have one modified gun and its a 1911.

 

[BigBill]

I have a few military surplus collectable rifles too. When I build a military rifle into a sporter I will purchase an unfinished bubba rifle for the action or buy a barreled action for my build. I refuse to take a collectable and ruin it. I even buy some bubba guns and turn them back to there original condition even if it costs more than the gun is worth of its a rare gun. I leave my s&w, my ruger handguns in there original condition. I do my own work with mods on my 1911's. I have fitted New barrels and nm barrel bushings. I have also changed barrels in mausers too. I purchased all the headspace gauges and some tools to work on my guns. I have all the gun Smith DVD' s too.

I feel safer if I do my own work. I have had others who did work for me in the past and mess things up. Between the educational dvds and the gun books I'm ok to do the work.

I been a car and truck mechanic, a class A machine builder, lead tech for an engineering group group in the r&d test lab, I assembled 155mm howitzers for the US army. So working on guns isn't that hard.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Well, guess I have learned to keep personal observations to myself.

I wouldn't do that. It would make things very boring around here. You did nothing wrong. But no matter what you say, someone is likely to disagree.

 

[DonD]

My favorites are stippling plastic pistols and jeweling revolvers. And let's not forget porting barrels. To each his own, but it drops their value. And for me, I wouldn't consider buying them once they've been "personalized" in that manner (unless the price was crazy cheap).

If porting a barrel had a dramatic effect, they'd be a better idea than they are but my experience with porting isn't positive. I had my beautiful Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win Mag Magnaported 30 yrs ago. Really wish I hadn't, defaced the gun and I'm hard pressed to feel that the porting did any good.

I would suspect that the IPSC Open Class shooters with the huge pistol comps see real benefit but those are highly specialized guns and such a comp would be obscene on a S&W revolver. My opinion of course. Don