Colt CAR-15 XM177 E2

[CLASSIC12]

Today as I was casually checking the main local website for gun sales, I saw an add for a Colt Commando. I immediately wrote to the seller, he called me and by luck was passing close to my house on his way to the mountain for the Easter weekend. He agreed to take the rifle along and stop by to show it to me.

He said the barrel was replaced as the original was shot. The bolt was also replaced. Rifle is fully functional. Lots of external wear as can be expected with an old warhorse. Otherwise I really don’t know that much about this rifle.

Wikipedia : In April 1967, the Army purchased 510 Colt 629 Commandos for use by troops assigned to the Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG), and designated them XM177E2. Delivery was completed by the end of September 1967. The Air Force adopted a similar model without the forward assist feature as the GAU-5A/A.

Does that mean there were only 510 built in total and it dates the rifle between April and September of 1967. Or were more built later, after the initial order?

The asking price was $ 3000, we agreed on $ 2700. For info I live in Switzerland. So the wait for the special license begins, should be 2-3 weeks.

Pics (not the greatest as I did them in a rush) :

With its sibling (1972 M16A1)

 

[Jessie]

There’s some history
Sorry that I can’t give you any info on this since my full auto days ended when I left the Army. Nice seeing these two old Colts, though.

 

[Lee Barner]

you lucky devil. haven't handled one of those in almost 29 years. i'll be retired 29 years July 1. I still had a CAR-15 A2(with forward bolt assist) my last year in the AF in Turkey. no telling how many barrels had been replaced on it but mine shot great. carried both versions in RVN back in the day. really preferred the GAU-5. lee

 

[Steve912]

Nice XM. I suspect there were quite a few more than 500 built.

Guys I knew in the 80's, that were issued 'em said they were tough to zero;
due to shorter sight radius, or maybe worn rifling--??

An RVN-era LRRP friend said he got his 'handed down' as a senior team
member DEROS's (returned to US), and the rifling was totally shot out.
He said it keyholed at 25 yards, and had pretty spectacular knock-down
at close range.

 

[44specialfan]

Congratulations Sir !! Would dearly love to know the story of how that old war horses ended up in your part of the world. When a MG transfers in Switzerland, would any history of previous owner(s) become available to you? Again, my congratulations.
Tony in Colorado

 

[Mexican Kerry]

Very nice! So, that's a select-fire version? I know nothing about the laws where you are. Can you use it? I only ask because here the people who have a license allowing them to purchase something like that are few, and if you don't have one, you're never getting one. And even if you do, you aren't allowed to fire it.

 

[Goldstar225]

Interesting piece of history. Like Lee I was issued one as an AF Cop while stationed at Incirlik AB in Turkey back in 81-82. Never got a chance to fire it though.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Congratulations Sir !! Would dearly love to know the story of how that old war horses ended up in your part of the world. When a MG transfers in Switzerland, would any history of previous owner(s) become available to you? Again, my congratulations.

Tony in Colorado

Thanks. No way to know the history. Seller told me a LGS bought and imported a few M60 machine guns and a few of those Colt Commandos.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Very nice! So, that's a select-fire version? I know nothing about the laws where you are. Can you use it? I only ask because here the people who have a license allowing them to purchase something like that are few, and if you don't have one, you're never getting one. And even if you do, you aren't allowed to fire it.

Yes it’s a select fire. I can use it sparingly, as I need a license to shoot it, issued by the bureau of firearms, and the approval of the firing range, typically outside normal operating hours.

 

[CLASSIC12]

I received the license and picked up the gun and the original barrel with the front sight this morning. No markings at all. The barrel was pretty corroded inside and pitted with weak grooves. I started cleaning it, hoping it would improve, but it just made the pitting shinier and more obvious.

I will still install it in order to bring the gun back to its original condition. In any case it’s not meant as a precision rifle, and I will fire it very occasionally in full auto mode at short to medium distances.

Seems to be a 10 inch barrel, not 11.5

With the flat ring instead of the Delta / tapered ring.

So I came to the conclusion that it is an XM 177 E2 lower with an XM 177 E1 upper. If these things could talk.

Some details :

The large aperture sight seems to have been ground off, maybe for a faster target acquisition at short range.

As a consequence, the small aperture sight falls backwards

And the front sight was bottomed out in order to compensate

... with pliers ...

The replacement barrel and front sight

 

[CLASSIC12]

It came with 3 30 rounds mags, a Colt, an Okay and one unmarked

 

[Texas Star]

Looks as if a good cleaning will help. A wet toothbrush should get some of the mud off.

I gather that you won't be hunting chamois or whatever game animals there are in Switzerland with these?

What's the big deal about full auto fire at shooting ranges? Don't most Swiss keep full auto SIG 550 rifles at home, anyway? Can't you fire those on full auto, or is that limited to military qualification firing days?

As ever, your photos are excellent. Thanks for posting about this.

 

[Steve912]

She's had a few hot suppers.

Check the bolt for cracks, where cam pin
passes thru, and tight staking on fasteners
for carrier key.

Gas rings may need replacing too.

 

[CLASSIC12]

So my gunsmith installed the original barrel (well the barrel that came with the gun).

He also test fired the gun, and the bad news is that the barrel is so shot, that the bullets keyhole even at 10 meters.

On the other hand the full auto ran great with no hiccups.

The other bad news is that the FSB on the replacement CMMG barrel was butchered in with 5 screws, two of them being totally seized. The smith did not want to drill the screws and risk damage something (I took care of that later) so he could not remove the old original flat ring

Anyway here’s the rifle in it’s somewhat more original configuration

Now I need to find an 11.5’ 1:12 Colt barrel

 

[CLASSIC12]

I received and installed an 11.5’ barrel from Brownells

Still missing a grenade ring

 

[daglockman]

Yours looks like a real deal 629. I wish that gun could talk.
I saw a 639, which was a export version come up for sale at auction here in the states late last year. It went for $27.000. You got a bargain. In the states, the muzzle device is considered a suppressor, and must be serialized, and registered separately from the machine gun with the ATF. Forgotten weapons did a video of the 639 on Youtube. Cool piece of history you have there. My friend has a M-16 with a 11.5" barreled upper, and it is a flamethrower, and a blast to shoot. Especially indoors.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Here's my only experience with the Colt Commando XM1777E2: I served in the U.S. Army from 1975 to 1980. There were a lot of Viet Nam veterans still serving, and one of our Sergeants was one of them (he was also a Korean War veteran). He was a bit odd and not very friendly, and he was also a Green Beret and had served in Viet Nam with MACV - SOG. No one, and I mean no one ever messed with that guy. He wasn't a big or scary looking guy - in fact, he looked more like an old farmer than "Rambo". One day both of us got stuck doing some job together. There was a lot of down time so lots of time to talk. I asked him if he was familiar with the Colt Commando as I had seen photos of some being used in Viet Nam and I thought that one really cool piece of ordinance.

He told me he had been issued one briefly while in Viet Nam, but had arranged for it to get "lost in combat" so he could go back to the M-16. What? Why in the world would you do that? He told me that he went out on a patrol armed with the new XM-1777E2 and they ran into trouble. He said he was covering the rear of the team as they were all running to get to their extraction point. He said he was surprised and amazed at how quickly he was going through ammunition until he realized he was only firing 1 or 2 rounds before having to reload. He then realized that when he was inserting the fully loaded magazine, for some reason he was hitting the magazine release with his loading hand thus dumping a nearly full magazine. To his credit, when I asked if this was a weapon malfunction, he said that the weapon was fine, but that he was so scared that he was causing the problem. He immediately won my respect as here's a man who was not only a veteran of 2 wars, but was also a Green Beret, and he not only admitted to being scared in combat, but also that he was capable of making mistakes! He told me that he really preferred the fit of M-16 (he actually preferred the M-1 Garand, but couldn't find one) over that of the Colt Commando.

Congratulations on your purchase.

Regards,

Dave

 

[jag312]

$2700 for that piece of military history? That brings tears to my eyes. In the US, that would sell for at least 10 times that amount.

 

[daglockman]

I would guess you saw these when doing your research on the replacement barrels, but Brownells also makes a complete replacement upper for this gun.
XM177E2 Upper Receiver 5.56MM 1-12 Twist 12.7" : BROWNELLS XM177E2 UPPER RECEIVERS COMPLETE 5.56 | Brownells

 

[CLASSIC12]

A few weeks ago I received the grenade ring I ordered, today I took a few pics of the rifle