I saw one of these at a LGS today . These were from Colt and I think they came out in the 70’s. What’s the deal with them ? Did Colt actually make them or did they just finish them with Italian parts ? Looked beautiful.
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Colt Reproduction Black Powder Revolvers
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ggibson511960
Member
Colt Signature Series
They are genuine Colts, serial numbered sequentially from the originals in the 1800's. They are exquisitely made pieces, far better than the Italian guns available in the 70's. However, today's Italian Colt copies are as good as you can buy, IMHO, at least the Uberti's. Others, not so much.
They are genuine Colts, serial numbered sequentially from the originals in the 1800's. They are exquisitely made pieces, far better than the Italian guns available in the 70's. However, today's Italian Colt copies are as good as you can buy, IMHO, at least the Uberti's. Others, not so much.
The internet (and Colt Forum) to the rescue.
"C" series second generation guns
There's a lot of information out there.
"C" series second generation guns
There's a lot of information out there.
sureshotbob
Member
I use to collect the Signature Series {3rd Edition} I had a Walker, Dragoon, 1851 Navy, 1860 Army and 1849 Pocket.
They were made in Italy but assembled and finished in N.Y. .
They were very nice guns and a lot of fun to shoot not so much fun to clean after shooting.
They were made in Italy but assembled and finished in N.Y. .
They were very nice guns and a lot of fun to shoot not so much fun to clean after shooting.
Terminology is important.
Colt sourced the machined parts from Uberti, then sub contracted to Iver Johnson to fit, polish and finish the Uberti parts and proof test the finished pistol.
This met the definition of "assembled" in the US, so they did not have to have import marks and could be roll marked as Colt made pistols - even though Colt really did nothing except provide the specifications for fit and finish.
That said, they are extremely well made revolvers, and tend to hold their value very well.
Colt sourced the machined parts from Uberti, then sub contracted to Iver Johnson to fit, polish and finish the Uberti parts and proof test the finished pistol.
This met the definition of "assembled" in the US, so they did not have to have import marks and could be roll marked as Colt made pistols - even though Colt really did nothing except provide the specifications for fit and finish.
That said, they are extremely well made revolvers, and tend to hold their value very well.
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There's 2 different 'series' of 2nd generation Colt percussion pistols
C series 1971 to 77/78
F series 1978 to 82
The C series only had 2 models in it the '51 Navy and the 3rd Model Dragoon. There were plenty of special order, one-of's, ect made up in the Custom Shop at Colts on these as well.
Ser#'s picked up where old production left off.
Much has been knocked around about where the parts came from and who finished them, who assembled them ect.
It's not like it's ancient history,,those people are still very much with us that worked on that project.
The frames were investment cast in the USA and you can see that were investment cast by looking at the interior of any of those frames of a stripped down revolver.
I've been told that Ruger/Pine Tree Castings in NH made the frames. It's just business, and very common in the industry. You make what I need and can't make.
Marlin made Rugers bbls when Ruger was getting started.
The other pistol parts came from Uberti but through Navy Arms. N/A was the US contact for Uberti so Colt had to go through them for the major parts.
Steel parts finished machined, brass as cast. All fitting, assembly & finishing done in the US.
The F series is a different story as it has 10 or 12 models in it.
Plus the story muddles as to who was involved in the mfg'r with involvement of IverJohnson in it and it's owner Lou Imperato. Some versions place him & IJ in the C series mfg circle also.
All very confusing to say the least. I think the F series were for the most part finished and assembled by Iver Johnson,,but I don't know that for a fact. That's just my feeling from talking with some people in the business over the years.
It doesn't alter the fact that some parts were sourced from Uberti in Italy and finished and assembled in the USA to make the revolvers.
They are still considered a 'Colt'.
One thing I haven't been able to find is if the case coloring was done at Colt or outside the factory on the 2nd Gen Percussions.
Most all the 2nd and most of the 3rd Gen Colt SAA case color work was done by Case Color Co in Ohio (Don Menk,,ret'rd now).
Some 2nd gen by Dan Cullity in MA I believe also.
I don't know about the F series.
Two or three years after the F series guns were done, Colt really went into a tailspin,,a 5 year long labor strike w/ unskilled workers were brought in make up the labor force
All 2nd gen I have seen are excellent quality.
FWIW,,US Firearms Mfg Co in HArtford planned on putting out a series of 'Colt' percussion revolvers at one time. This was after their SAA's gained wide acceptance. The company was still using parts from Uberti at the time and reworking them to build their SAA. The percussion revolvers were made up the same way.
The project got no further than a handfull of completed and finished pistols for display and checking possible markets.
Some others were completed and finished up 'in the white' and left that way contemplating orders I can only guess,,which never came.
Those in the white pistols included some matched sets, one of which I bought from a local shop who was a USFA dealer. He must have been offered them on a close out of some sort.
I have heard of others being around too.
On one of the pistols in the set I had (1851 Navy's) you could just barely see a portion of the orig Uberti bbl address.
Beautiful polishing job as usual from them. They made a nice engraving project at the time.
I wish I had a pic or two!
C series 1971 to 77/78
F series 1978 to 82
The C series only had 2 models in it the '51 Navy and the 3rd Model Dragoon. There were plenty of special order, one-of's, ect made up in the Custom Shop at Colts on these as well.
Ser#'s picked up where old production left off.
Much has been knocked around about where the parts came from and who finished them, who assembled them ect.
It's not like it's ancient history,,those people are still very much with us that worked on that project.
The frames were investment cast in the USA and you can see that were investment cast by looking at the interior of any of those frames of a stripped down revolver.
I've been told that Ruger/Pine Tree Castings in NH made the frames. It's just business, and very common in the industry. You make what I need and can't make.
Marlin made Rugers bbls when Ruger was getting started.
The other pistol parts came from Uberti but through Navy Arms. N/A was the US contact for Uberti so Colt had to go through them for the major parts.
Steel parts finished machined, brass as cast. All fitting, assembly & finishing done in the US.
The F series is a different story as it has 10 or 12 models in it.
Plus the story muddles as to who was involved in the mfg'r with involvement of IverJohnson in it and it's owner Lou Imperato. Some versions place him & IJ in the C series mfg circle also.
All very confusing to say the least. I think the F series were for the most part finished and assembled by Iver Johnson,,but I don't know that for a fact. That's just my feeling from talking with some people in the business over the years.
It doesn't alter the fact that some parts were sourced from Uberti in Italy and finished and assembled in the USA to make the revolvers.
They are still considered a 'Colt'.
One thing I haven't been able to find is if the case coloring was done at Colt or outside the factory on the 2nd Gen Percussions.
Most all the 2nd and most of the 3rd Gen Colt SAA case color work was done by Case Color Co in Ohio (Don Menk,,ret'rd now).
Some 2nd gen by Dan Cullity in MA I believe also.
I don't know about the F series.
Two or three years after the F series guns were done, Colt really went into a tailspin,,a 5 year long labor strike w/ unskilled workers were brought in make up the labor force
All 2nd gen I have seen are excellent quality.
FWIW,,US Firearms Mfg Co in HArtford planned on putting out a series of 'Colt' percussion revolvers at one time. This was after their SAA's gained wide acceptance. The company was still using parts from Uberti at the time and reworking them to build their SAA. The percussion revolvers were made up the same way.
The project got no further than a handfull of completed and finished pistols for display and checking possible markets.
Some others were completed and finished up 'in the white' and left that way contemplating orders I can only guess,,which never came.
Those in the white pistols included some matched sets, one of which I bought from a local shop who was a USFA dealer. He must have been offered them on a close out of some sort.
I have heard of others being around too.
On one of the pistols in the set I had (1851 Navy's) you could just barely see a portion of the orig Uberti bbl address.
Beautiful polishing job as usual from them. They made a nice engraving project at the time.
I wish I had a pic or two!
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smoothshooter
Member
It's a damned shame that two iconic American companies like Colt and Winchester let themselves get so jacked up over mis-management and union **** that they can't even make their own earlier model guns any more, while the Italians put serious money in the bank every day selling every Colt and Winchester clone they can assemble and ship.
And putting the American company's name on each one to boot!
And putting the American company's name on each one to boot!
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