Comparing the 38 special, 44 special & 45acp?

[BigBill]

I don't have much experience with the 44 special nor shot that much 38 special. But can you experienced shooters compare the 38 special, the 44 special and the 45acp for me in a CCW situation?? Is one better than the other in close quarter combat?

Power wise?

Accuracy?

stopping power?

 

[mc5aw]

You just opened up a Pandora's Box of caliber comparison ...

All are fine rounds; all have certain limitations.

Shot placement is key ... better to hit something than miss it, irrespective of caliber.

In three identical CQ self defense scenarios, with all factors being equal, bigger may indeed be best.

 

[Moonman]

Basically,

How's YOUR accuracy from 3' to 12'?

Mostly 3' to 6' for CIVILIAN defensive actions.

BASICALLY, YOU either turn off the BRAIN BOX with ACCURACY, or

you hope for a quicker BLEED-OUT WITH CALIBER AND BULLET STYLE.

Life or Death situations are VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS and not a speculative forum for the firearm novice.

Get REAL TRAINING, READ, Firearms and Ammo both for practice (continual) and defense is EXPENSIVE, get used to it, it will never get cheaper.

 

[feralmerril]

You will get a mountain of oppinions and some fact. Basicly a heavy. 44 or. 45 bullet should be a better stopper. It doesnt end there. A light snub in. 38 can be carried in the pocket and still is usualy effective too. You are far more apt to actualy pack your light snub. 38 than your. 44 special or heavy. 45 auto after the novelty wears off.

 

[Rule3]

I hate ballistic comparisons and usually do not get involved. But I will. Having chronographed all the mentioned rounds.

The only good one is a 12 gauge. There now that is out of the way.

In fear of flames I do not think much of the standard 38 special out of snub.
It is a anemic round compared to 44 Special and 45 ACP. But heck I carry a 9mm short. (380)And a real 9mm . I much rather carry a pocket 9 mm with 7 rounds that a J frame with 5. That's just me

A 38 +P with the right bullet is effective at close range.

Any 44 or 45 trumps the 38 special IMO. Shot placement being equal.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I believe the .44 Special and the .45 ACP have very similar ballistics.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The late great Bill Jordan said the 38 Special is the most powerful round the average shooter can gain the most proficiency with, the late great Jim Cirillo was pretty deadly with one, and I think Charlie Askins was also quite deadly with the 38. As others have noted, shot placement is critical-and few of us are that accurate under stress. But hits with a 38 Special hurt a lot more than misses with more powerful calibers.

 

[CW Spook]

I have 3 .45s, but when I went out the door to church this morning, it was my 642CT in its Robert Mika holster that dropped into my pocket. If I'd been headed into the city, I might have taken time to outfit myself with a 1911, but as someone else noted, a .38 in your pocket is worth more than a .45 at home in the drawer or safe. The great thing about the J-frame is that you don't have to make a decision about what to wear for concealment.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The Army found that 38 long Colt out of a 5" to 6" revolver wouldn't stop a druged up attacker so they went to the 45 Colts that they had in storage, even issued some Colt new service DA revolvers in 45 colt chambers, but new Frankfort Arsenal ammo was in 45 US ( a 45 S&W length case with a 45Colt rim dia., a 230 grain lead bullet at about 830FPS). The 44Russian and Special loads at the time were 246 grains of lead at just under 800FPS, the Classic 45Colt load is 855 grains of lead at whatever speed the powder pushed it at, but around 900fps is a 7.5" SAA. And of course the Ball ACP is 230 grain JRN @ 830 FPS in a 5" 1911. In real life, Carry guns are short so you get less volicity. But big slow chunks of lead seem to end self defence problems better than small slow chunks of lead. But what do I carry? Most days a Mod-49 1 7/8", with 135 grain +P's, On some days a 3.25" 45acp auto with 230 grain Hydroshocks. Depends on my mood when I dress that day. I have a Medium frame 5 shot 44 Special Tarus, that I never carry, don't even have a belt holster for! Go with what YOU know works! Try and find some friends with lots of handguns and see if you can bring ammo and try them out. Just feeling the recoil, the weight of the guns, the group size and any sort of expantion test at say 30 feet will give you real info for compairison. It is your life you're defending, don't let me or others decide for you, do your homework and field work, spend some money on reserch, make a thought out informed decision, then practice. After about a year many people go to a second gun to cover the times the first gun was inappropriate (think back up gun). Also you will have holsters (yes with a "s") for different times, clothes, or seasons. for each gun. Try them in different positions, like every inch around the side of your waist, you'll be suprised at the comfort change an inch can make. I know it is easy for me to say but, "It's only money" Ivan

 

[Bat Guano]

I used to take the caliber wars much more seriously. I now consider ANY pistol caliber round marginal for defense. IMHO good loads well placed are all probably about equally effective (?) in the real world. Common sense, good tactics, mindset and a stone reliable weapon are probably much more to the point anyway.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Caliber selection is just a small part of the self defense equation. Some people worry about it more than others.

If you could guaranty that you could hit your intended target under pressure, in any condition, and at a target that may be moving, then caliber selection is not so important.

Since most of us can't guaranty such accuracy under those conditions and will probably need to expend more rounds to stop the attacker, again, caliber isn't as important.

Two or three (or more) good hits with a 38/9MM are no better or worse than a larger caliber.

Stick with what you shoot well and practice. And stick with what you can shoot rapidly while staying on target.

 

[StatesRightist]

Mc5aw pretty much covered it.

I would add though, unless you reload or are wealthy, .44 special is an expensive caliber to shoot. Unless one of the 2 prior descriptions fits you, you will not shoot it enough to achieve the level of proficiency you should with a CCW weapon. .45 is the best choice, but it will require your master semi-autos as well as shooting, unless you are going to fork over big bucks for a 625 etc. .38 is the most affordable round and in most cases, starting with a revolver will end up making you a better shooter. It is also easier to master, more dependable for a newbie and a cheaper alternative. JMO.

 

[mc5aw]

StatesRightist makes a very valid point re: practice and proficiency. If you can't afford to sufficiently practice with Model A due to high ammo costs, you best go to Model B or C. Between .38, .44 Special, and .45 ACP, the .44s are the least cost effective.

I've also gotten some excellent advice recently (on and off line) from forum members as to .45 ACP carry guns. I asked for opinions on a Colt New Agent vs. a S&W 325/625, and the support was unanimous in favor of the Colt. The consensus opinion was due primarily to size and weight of the Colt vs. the Smith. Realistically, .45 ACP is a great round for self defense, but it may not be as practical based upon the platform that supports it. I know quite a few folks carry 1911s, and if that works for them, fine. For most average physiques like myself however, anything other than a compact 1911 is too much. And shooting a compact .45 ACP with precision is not easy; lots of range time is required to master it to a similar level of proficiency that a competent shooter can manipulate a standard J-frame. Springfield makes the micro XDs in .45ACP, but I have not read enough feedback from owners to comment yea or nay.

I have a 1985-vintage 624 snub in .44 Special that is a magnificent revolver. Perfectly balanced, expertly crafted, and a joy to shoot. It is ideal to carry when hiking in the woods, as it packs enough juice to take care of most critters. However, I tried lugging it around as a CCW ... no go. Too big, too heavy, too tough to conceal. Therefore, I stay with my J-frames as I wait for my New Agent.

What others have said holds true ... find the handgun and caliber that works best for your needs.

 

[DeathGrip]

Simple. A K-frame in .357 and you can shoot .38 on the cheep.

The .45 ACP is a great round but as stated 625's are expensive. I'd like to find one I could afford.

Good auto's in .45 ain't cheep either.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Simple. A K-frame in .357 and you can shoot .38 on the cheep.

The .45 ACP is a great round but as stated 625's are expensive. I'd like to find one I could afford.

Good auto's in .45 ain't cheep either.

Or a Ruger SP101. Shoot both and little easier to conceal.

 

[DeathGrip]

Or a Ruger SP101. Shot both and little easier to conceal.

I forgot about the concealment part. To many threads about mag. vs hunting vs CCW.

 

[tom turner]

I like 'em all, and have spent many years carrying various calibers.

Today? I still like 'em all, but have discovered that the only thing that I KNOW will work in the pocket all the time is my S&W .38 Spl. Airweight revolver . . . lighter than my all-steel one so it will conceal easily yet just heavy enough to control well. THUS, if I could have only one SD handgun, it would HAVE to be the .38Spl. Airweight!

Occasionally I'll tote my 3" Model 65 .357 mag., or my chopped, custom 3 1/4" bbl. Model 25-2 (.45ACP) revolver . . . or a compact or full size 1911 but frankly . . . the J frame is about all I usually need or desire to tote.

INDOORS . . .
Indoors a .357, 45ACP, 44 Spl., etc can over-penetrate and possibly kill an innocent family member or other person. When I load my .357 as a house gun I download it to .38 Spl.

Lee Harvey Oswald killed officer Tippett with a .38 . . . then Jack Ruby returned the favor, shooting Oswald in the gut ("to make him hurt as much as possible until he died," Ruby said) with his Colt Detective Special in .38 Spl.

The "lowly .38" CAN get the job done, and I trust my life to one every day. Light, convenient . . . and WHO would want to be shot by one anyway!!!

PS: Today's deer kill was via my Model 29 in .44 Magnum . . . different needs = different calibers . . . and they are ALL fun to shoot!!!

 

[crofoot629]

The .38 Special is just plain anemic.
That said I carried a Snubby .38 J-Frame with a New York reload of Snubby .22 RF when I went out to dinner with the kids tonight.
I was to lazy to take off my sweat pants and put on pants with a belt to "gun up".

I really like the .45 acp and full size 1911's.
When I'm feeling like a change I'll carry a .357 with Double Tap's 125's@ 1600fps. Or a 44 Mag with Corbon's 165's @ 1300 fps which is a really lite and easy to shoot 44 Mag.

Random thoughts to go in the pile.

Emory

 

[7shooter]

Here is an interesting research study by Greg Ellifritz on this issue. The conclusion was that there was little difference in actual street effectiveness among the common handgun calibers. Rifles and shotguns were clearly superior.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

 

[StatesRightist]

Here is an interesting research study by Greg Ellifritz on this issue. The conclusion was that there was little difference in actual street effectiveness among the common handgun calibers. Rifles and shotguns were clearly superior.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

Actually, the article points to the fact a certain percentage of people will stop their attack when shot, caliber aside. Any other conclusions really are not justified by the "research." The author essentially says his numbers are skewed with some calibers and not to draw much in the way of effectiveness since his "study" does not take into account cover, barrier penetration or heavy clothing. JMO, YMMV.