Copper plating tearing on FCP HBWC

[Greenjoytj]

Occasionally I would get tearing of the bullet jacket on CamPro brand Full Copper Plated Hollow Base Wad Cutters during bullet seating in Starline 38 Special cases.
The cases were sized with a Redding Dual Ring Carbide die.
Case expansion and case mouth belling done by the Redding exlander die.
CamPro says their copper plating is two & a half thou (0.0025”) thick.
I solve the occasional tearing problem by dipping the case mouth and the bullet base into Imperial Application Media. It’s a tub of ceramic beads coated with graphite. Giving the case & bullet a twist while dipped applied a thin coat of graphite dust.
This lube stopped the plating tears. I wipe the dust off the out side of the finished cartridge with a paper towel.

 

[StakeOut]

I've loaded thousands of plated 38/357,44spl/44magnum,45acp/45Colt bullets from X-Treme without the issue you describe.

This morning I loaded 300 X-Treme 148gr DEWC in 357 magnum cases over 3.5gr of Titegroup to an OAL of 1.365" with a light crimp in the bullet's cannular.

The process on a Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press was flawless.

 

[4barrel]

Dirty brass or not enough bell? dirty bullets? Try rolling the bullet on a lube pad-- it don't take much. I do that when loading a 180 or 200 grain bullet in a 38 or 357 case. It makes the brass smoother and the bullet easier to seat.

 

[TAROMAN]

OP did not mention if they were seating/sizing in the same step.
Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes not.
I load a lot of coated and plated bullets w/o issue.
Couple of things I do:
Clean brass with wet tumbler.
A bit of ArmorAll wax/wash in the rinse water lubes the cases a tiny bit.
Deburr inside case mouths.
Use the Lyman "M" case expanding die. It expands deeper.
Always seat and crimp as separate steps.

My $0.03 worth, YMMV.

 

[bigedp51]

The patent for Lyman's type "M" die expired and Redding is now making their expanders the same way with the larger diameter step on the expander.

Below the center die is the new Redding expander that copies the older Lyman type "M" expander.

Below a example of the Lyman type "M" expander for .223, and you can start the bullet into the cases with your fingers.

If you have the older type expander on your Redding die I recommend buying a Lyman type "M" expander to solve the tearing problem.

Also if you are wet tumbling these cases the case mouth will be peened and have sharp edges. I debur the case mouths after wet tumbling and remove the sharp edges.

I also seat and crimp in separate operations to prevent any damage to the plating.

Below more illustrations of the Lyman type "M" expander and usage, and how it helps seat the bullets straight in the case.

Lyman M-Die Expanding Plug Part Numbers
Lyman M-Die Expander Plug Part Numbers

 

[Greenjoytj]

I do all the steps in reloading as single operations, no two for one die operations. The Redding expander die is new maybe a year old.
I do wet tumble with SS pins, but haven’t noticed any peening burrs forming at the case mouth. If there are burrs I think case expansion and mouth flaring would move any rough case edges out of the way of bullet so nothing would snag during bullet seating.
I think the 148 gr HBWC bullets very long shank length is to blame for the plating tears as the lower half of the bullet is pressed into the case beyond the area the was widened by the expander plug.
I will try adding some automobile wash & wax soap to the tumbler.
Dried auto wax inside the cases plus my graphite dipping should help prevent plating tears.

 

[Krogen]

Wet tumbling w/ stainless pins. That could be the issue. I also use that method now and then - usually when cases get totally grungy. I notice that they come out squeaky clean. Literally. They are so clean that the cases will drag on the expander plug and squawk at me. With a little powder residue inside the case this doesn't happen.

In your situation, with all that friction, I figure the bullets can't stand the force and the plating yields. You may also be experiencing deformation of the bullet itself from the force required to seat it.

You probably have already found the solution; a little lube.

 

[hovercat]

Does your seating stem fit the bullet nose profile? A bit of walnut tumbling media or whatever up there could also can't the bullet a bit and cause problems.

 

[scooter123]

Where exactly are you seeing these "plating tears", at the bas or at the crimp? If you are seeing it at the crimp the most likely cause for this is either using a Seat/Crimp single stage operation or by using an improperly set up Crimp die that is equipped with a seating stem.

IF so the simple solution would be to remove the seating stem from your crimp die or back it well out in the die. BTW, I have had enough poor results attempting to use a combined Seat/Crimp setup that I wont use this type of operation ever again.

The worst result were 380 ACP Hornady XTP's that were changed to a Round Nose profile when the case cutting into the bullet caused a stall condition that produced enough force to reshape the nose of the bullet. However I had enough problems with the 45 ACP leaving shaved rings of copper all over my press that I just spent the money to get a Lee Factory Crimp Dies for every caliber I load.

PS; I fully expect that someone will chime in that combining seating and crimping works perfectly for them. Perhaps it does because they trim every piece of handgun brass to the exact same length. However I am NOT going to trim my handgun cases, it's just too much work.

 

[rwsmith]

Some bullets....

Some bullets that I use can definitely use a little help getting seated.

 

[StakeOut]

I dry tumble my cases in an inexpensive Frankford Arsenal brand tumbler.

3 parts walnut shell
1 part Lyman Tufnut

The finished cases shine like a diamond in a goat's butt.

No problems loading any type of bullet for my S&W revolvers in a Lee Classic 4 hole turret press using Lee 4 die sets,Lee Pro Disk powder measure and Lee Safety Prime .

 

[Calliope]

Usually plated bullets tear when they tip a little getting seated.
What kind of seating die are you using?

 

[Greenjoytj]

I use Redding die set. The dual ring carbide for sizing.
The plating tears were seen occasionally as crumpled plating that had flowed over the case mouth and crush flat to the side of the case in a half moon shape like the white half moon seen at the base of a finger nail.
At first I thought it was the case brass at the mouth that had crumpled down and the gap was showing the side of the HBWC bullet.
I pulled the bullet with a kinetic hammer tool and found the case brass was not crumpled. It was just crumpled copper plating flowing over the outside of the case.
Lubing the cases and bullet in the graphite hsa stoped the plating tears.

Why the plating was tearing what was the cause, I think it maybe caused by the bullet seating die. I have a Redding micrometer head seating die (which can not crimp) the part that actually touches the bullet is not a good match to the shape of this bullet. My bullet has a raised rounded ring at it’s outer edge and this is not a good fit to the near knife edge of the seating plug which is cut with a cone inside to seat pointy-er bullets like the Hornady XTP or cast SWC.
I’ll check with Redding to see if they make a blunt profile seating plug for a drop in fit to their micrometer head seating die.