Curios and Relics question

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les_garten

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Have a question.

Can I, as a NON FFL holder, ship a HandGun classified as a CR to a CR FFL license holder without using a FFL holder on my end?
 
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Yes. The gun must be sent to a person having an FFL, C&R type or
other and must go to the address on the license. Priority mail is the
best way to ship in my experience. My local clerks only ask if the box
contains hazardous materials or liquids. I've never been asked what's
inside.
 
I would be extremely careful.

The USPS requires that form 1508 be filed when certain firearms are shipped. On this form, you are certifying the following:

"The undersigned is a manufacturer of firearms or bona fide dealer therein, and the parcels presented for mailing herewith are customary trade shipments or other articles for repair or replacement of parts. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the addresses are manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein."

By BATFE definition, a C&R holder is not a "bona fide dealer"

The applicable provision in Title 18 is copied below....




FIREARMS LAW ADMINISTERED BY THE POSTAL SERVICE
TITLE 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 83

§ 1715. Firearms as nonmailable; regulations.

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mails or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service. Such articles may be conveyed in the mails, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe, for use in connection with their official duty, to officers of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps; to officers of the National Guard or Militia of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District; to officers of the United States or of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitments; to employees of the Postal Service;
to officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United
States; and to watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United
States, a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District. Such
articles also may be conveyed in the mails to manufacturers of firearms or
bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe. Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail according to the direction thereon, or at any place to which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any pistol, revolver, or firearm declared nonmailable by this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.


The short answer to the OPs question is yes you can, but you have to use a common carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc.), so long as your State's laws don't prohibit it on either end.
 
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Pace is absolutely correct: A C&R is not a bona fide dealer. Not all postal employees understand the difference between FFL & CR, and some will allow you to ship, but the onus of the Federal regulation is clearly on you. That's why I stick to shipping pre-1899 guns.
 
So if I use UPS I should be OK?

My FFL sent my G23 back to the Factory via USPS.

The factory sent the gun back to me directly??
 
les_garten said:
So if I use UPS I should be OK?

My FFL sent my G23 back to the Factory via USPS.

The factory sent the gun back to me directly??
Click to expand...

Usually, the factory will ship the gun back to the address from which it was sent aka the FFL. If you send it to the factory via something other than USPS, they will most likely ship it directly to you, since you are the legal owner. That's probably up to the individual manufacturer.

The last time I checked, you may send long guns via USPS, but not handguns. Just like any other citizen.
 
OK,

Couple more FFL type questions

Can I send a HK91 to a FFL holder thru UPS, FEDEX, or USPS without a FFL on my end?

Can I send a Handgun directly to an FFL, a non CR handgun, without an FFL on my end?
 
Can I send a HK91 to a FFL holder thru UPS, FEDEX, or USPS without a FFL on my end?... Yep, not a handgun

Can I send a Handgun directly to an FFL, a non CR handgun, without an FFL on my end?... Yep, but not thru USPS.

So long as, in both cases, the receiving FFL accepts firearms from non-FFLs....some don't.
 
Depends where you are,where they are.Personally,anything post 1898 goes out from an FFL, and into an FFL in my part of the world.I think it better to handle transactions in a similar way, no matter where you are.Just accept it as part of the expense of a gun transaction.Keeping things legal for 25-50 bucks is worth it.
 
CA does not recognize C&R for handguns. NJ doesn't recognize C&R at all. Only a 001 FFL dealer can send a pistol via US Mail.

So, if CA and NJ are not involved, you may ship a C&R handgun via Fed Ex or UPS to a C&R license holder.
 
C&R discrimination

SaxonPig said:
CA does not recognize C&R for handguns. NJ doesn't recognize C&R at all. Only a 001 FFL dealer can send a pistol via US Mail.

So, if CA and NJ are not involved, you may ship a C&R handgun via Fed Ex or UPS to a C&R license holder.
Click to expand...

Alas it seems that there are many more 01 FFL that DON'T want to deal with a C&R than do... But I still like dealing with those who think my C&R and my money are ok.

You can ship a firearm to yourself legally, but lots of UPS, FedEx and USPS workers wouldn't know of this detail.
 
DesertFox said:
Alas it seems that there are many more 01 FFL that DON'T want to deal with a C&R than do... But I still like dealing with those who think my C&R and my money are ok.

You can ship a firearm to yourself legally, but lots of UPS, FedEx and USPS workers wouldn't know of this detail.
Click to expand...

The primary reason for that is that too many FFLs do not read the regulations more often than not they just go off what someone (non ATF type) has told them.

Any problems I have had with UPS, FedEx or USPS workers I have solved by taking them a copy of the ATF regulations and those that govern their operation. If the desk clerk does not accept the written word I keep moving up the supervisor chain until I find someone that does and will explain it to the clerk. Do not take no for an answer.
 
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