Cylinder stop notch peening?

[Maximumbob54]

Is it just me or do stainless cylinders peen far worse than any blued carbon steel cylinders? Every single one of my stainless cylinders has not excessive but easily visible peening while it's hard to see anything at all on my blued carbon steel cylinders. I thought all the nickel in the stainless made that alloy stronger??? Is there something about the alloy, heat treating, or something else that I'm not understanding???

 

[team sidewinder]

That is funny as I was under the impression that stainless was a little harder/stronger also. I was quite suprised to see the peening on my SS revolver cylinder. Guess there isn't anything that can be done to keep it from happening but even so I don't like it. Not sure how bad it will get over time but I only have 20 or less rounds through mine and shows. I can't imagine it being good as far as percise cylinder lockup goes. Everybody here on this forum say it is normal so guess it must be as there is a wealth of knowledge here. I have never noticed rugers SS doing it although I don't own any rugers.

 

[Step N. Mud]

Might check out the 500 Magnum Nut sticky at the top of this forum, about the cylinder stop and look close to the bottom of the page.

 

[G.T. Smith]

Yeah, it's just you.
Peace,
gordon

 

[TNFrank]

Do you have any pics of this, I'd like to see what you're talking about.

 

[team sidewinder]

There is some other discussion on this same subject on this forum under cylinder galling. Can't find it now but there are some pics of the same condition.

 

[one eye joe]

This condition appears to be more prevalent with revolvers that are predominantly shot in DA.......

 

[1sailor]

It proably depends on the grade of stainless but contrary to what many think, stainless does not have the strength of carbon steel. Stainless steel bolts are much softer than standard bolts of the same size. With sailboat rigging, the more resistant rigging needs to be larger in diameter to provide the same strength. The advantage to stainless is it's resistance to oxidation, not it's strength.

 

[team sidewinder]

The cylinder galling post I found isn't the one I am thinking of as it describes/shows that the galling looks to me like it is on the cylinder stop turn like on the cylinder. I know what you are talking about though as it is right on the cylinder stop notch. There was some thought that staging the trigger when shooting made this condition worse. I don't mind the turn line on the cylinder but the cylinder notch stop peening bugs the ---- out of me.

 

[peppercorn]

Here is a link to my 629 thread, with photos, regarding the same issue, more or less.
Since posting these photos I have put a few hundred more Mags through it along with one of my model 29s. To my eye they both are showing similar wear.
A S&W armorer looked them over and told me they look average for the ammo I shoot.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...0-rounds-results-cylinder-damage-galling.html

 

[TSQUARED]

I have noticed for several years that the old blued carbon steel guns have a tougher/harder steel than the current stainless models. Peening will also be accelerated by an unfluted cylinder with it's higher mass (does not apply to unfluted titanium cylinders).

 

[team sidewinder]

Thanks peppercorn. Those are excellent pics of the condition. May I ask what ammo you are using. I am using Federal 300 gr. factory loads that really aren't that hot and I have some Garrett Defenders 310 which are very close to the Federals but haven't put any through my 629-6 yet. It looks to me like with the soft stainless cylinders they ( S&W ) need a cylinder stop that has more surface contact with the cylinder notch not that is ever going to happen.

Your closeup of the cylinder stop lets us see just how rough the cylinder stop is and no wonder it leaves a turn line on the cylinder but that is another story.

My main gripe on this is that although my pistol may only have a 100 rounds through it when/if I ever do sell it it will look like it has 1000 rounds through it.

 

[Ashlander]

Team Sidewinder: I have shoot a lot of stainless revolvers and have found that the new ones all experience this bit of peening -- I believe the cylinder latch is just mating with the notches -- finding its home as it were. My guns with 1000s of rounds through them look no different than the ones with a couple hundred. That's true with S&Ws as well as Rugers. Don't fret.

 

[ltxi]

Why would anyone presume stainless is harder than carbon steel? I would inherently believe just the opposite.

 

[peppercorn]

Thanks peppercorn. Those are excellent pics of the condition. May I ask what ammo you are using. I am using Federal 300 gr. factory loads that really aren't that hot and I have some Garrett Defenders 310 which are very close to the Federals but haven't put any through my 629-6 yet. It looks to me like with the soft stainless cylinders they ( S&W ) need a cylinder stop that has more surface contact with the cylinder notch not that is ever going to happen.

Your closeup of the cylinder stop lets us see just how rough the cylinder stop is and no wonder it leaves a turn line on the cylinder but that is another story.

My main gripe on this is that although my pistol may only have a 100 rounds through it when/if I ever do sell it it will look like it has 1000 rounds through it.

No problem 'sidewinder, and, thank you.

I shoot 240 grain wadcutters and 180 grain JHPs, PMC and BVAC, in this one, so far.

 

[Ashlander]

Itxi: I know what you mean. When I was a kid (45 plus years ago!) it seemed the best stainless steel knife blades were down-right sorry compared to even cheap carbon steel blades. With that in the back of my mind, I would never presume that stainless could be harder than carbon steel.

Yet technology marches on. Now there are hundred and hundreds of different varieties of steels -- carbon and stainless. All have their own strengths and weaknesses, and the old generalities no longer seem justified. There are some extremely hard stainless steels nowadays (maybe not as hard as the hardest carbon steels, but darned hard). Most of my best knives now have stainless blades -- and they hold an edge unlike anything around when I was young. I don't know what varieties of steel the guns are made out of, but I have no qualms about stainless revolvers. I suppose that's a long way of saying good enough might not be the best but it is good enough.

Cordially, Ashlander

 

[Maximumbob54]

I figured I would break down and show some pics of what I't talking about. However, I'm shocked at how much worse the camera makes them look. I guess it's the same thing as the "camera adds ten pounds" kind of thing.

And just for contrast, this is my 19-4 that I shoot tons of .38's through in both single action and double action.

I would have thought adding all the nickel to the steel would make for a stronger alloy. I guess that was a stupid assumption. But it does make my desire for hard chrome plated revolvers grow even more so. If all the stainless is doing for us is giving us some corrosion protection but makes for a weaker strength then I am ten fold more so in favor of hard chrome plating. Maybe I should send in that 19-4 for that treatment.

 

[stantheman86]

The .460's and .500's are made from stainless......... And the Ruger Super Redhawks in .44 and .454 are also stainless....so I am not worried about the strength of stainless

 

[Maximumbob54]

It's not that I'm worried about the cylinder blowing up, I just find it odd that not one of my blued steel revolvers has this issue while almost all of my stainless guns do. Just like flame cutting, it seems to be self mitigating but it's ugly.

 

[18DAI]

I agree that it is self limiting.

My high time 4" 66-2 has significant stop notch peening. I got it several.....well....a dozen years ago with 25,000 rounds on it, and have put at least another 10,000 rounds through it. Babied it is not.

The stop notch peening is no different today than when I got the revolver. Timing is good and lock up is tight. Regards 18DAI

 

[Titegroups]

Almost no firearms are made with plain carbon steel like 1020,1040,1095. Almost all are made from chrome-moly steels like 4140 4130 etc. Stainless steels have a tendency to gall when rubbed together. Stainless steels are almost always "stronger" than plain carbon steels which aren't used for firearms to begin with. You would think somebody here would know that. Sad.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Wow, sorry...

It just happens to be how they list it. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers.

 

[team sidewinder]

Team Sidewinder: I have shoot a lot of stainless revolvers and have found that the new ones all experience this bit of peening -- I believe the cylinder latch is just mating with the notches -- finding its home as it were. My guns with 1000s of rounds through them look no different than the ones with a couple hundred. That's true with S&Ws as well as Rugers. Don't fret.

Thanks Ashlander. At least that is good to know. I know I am pretty anal about how my guns look and even though I do use ( not abuse ) them I like them to look as new as possible after years of service.

 

[stantheman86]

I had noticed this, my 64-7 has peening on the bolt stop notches. It does nothing to affect function and it's just a little quirk of stainless guns. There are plenty of 64's and 66's out there with 10's of thousands of rounds through them and are still tight. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[italbrit]

As my first posting I wish to say hello to each of you knowledgeable gentlemen,as far cylinder notch peening is concerned I've got reason to believe that what causes that problem is not fast double action work as many people may think or slow cocking or ammunition etc. in fact the problem may not even exist. Some three months ago I purchased a brand new 686 ,I hadn't turned the cylinder once that the notches were already peened,I was pretty upset indeed,it took me three months to figure it out when I rubbed my index finger on the notch the other day but I didn't feel any roughness ,that got me suspicious ,normally when I look at my guns I do it under artificial lighting ,usually a ceiling light and it is then that the peening is pronounced ,the other day I turned the light out and opened my window,I could see perfectly without any artificial light ,I was dumbfounded to see the peening on the notches totally and utterly GONE ! I thought I was seeing non existing things so I checked and re-checked , the notches looked perfect to me ,my conclusion is that it's an optical illusion , I wish you gentlemen would try this yourself stainless steel plays funny tricks on the human eyes that's why blued cylinders won't show any peening

 

[brokenprism]

Why would anyone presume stainless is harder than carbon steel? I would inherently believe just the opposite.

When I was researching how to polish stainless a few years back, I read it was harder to polish because it was harder steel -- alloy content or something required real cutting power in the abrasive. That aside though, as soon as I saw the pic of a "brand new" 29 (God, that MIM cylinder stop is nasty -- no offense. No wonder -1s are soaring in price.) I thought "What if it's a timing issue?" That is, what if, when they were making the carbon 29s (no dash, -2s, etc.) they just timed them better? You won't see peening if the stop drops where it's supposed to.

 

[H Richard]

It is my understanding that the peening usually results from lots of rapid fire in double action.

 

[grip frame]

You don't see much notch peening on carbon steel revolvers. Its common place on SS revolvers. Its obvious that the carbon steel used in Smith revolvers is stronger(more ductility?) than the stainless used.

The peening is the result of fast DA shooting or cocking the hammer too fast/excessive force for a single action shot. It does not occur from slow hammer cocking.

The more positively/over timed the revolver is the more peening that will take place. The heavier non fluted cylinders have more moving mass and will peen worse than fluted cylinders.

Its a bigger problem with the N frame than the K or L frames as the cylinder and loads are heavier in the N frame.

 

[italbrit]

Would anybody explain why the peening shows under artificial lighting and not under natural light ? Of course I'm talking about stainless steel revolvers ,double action work would cause peening? If that's the case why should a brand new revolver which has never been fired have the the cylinder notches peened ?

 

[italbrit]

Grip Frame, your theory sounds good ,but it still doesn't explain why my N frame shows much less peening than the L frame . The L frame cylinder notches were peened when it was unfired and the cylinder hadn't been turned at all, let's admit it we don't know !Carbon steel appears to peen less to stainless because usually the colour is black and black will absorb all the spectrum wavelengths reflecting none ,that' why peening on stainless steel is clearly visible under artificial lighting and not natural lighting ,very strange indeed, it' easy to blame it on the cylinder mass, on fast double action work on the ammunition that we use,etc. but ………………………...