DA/SA to DAO...how hard ?

Dregg

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
555
Reaction score
322
I'm currently looking for a 3rd Gen .45 in DAO configuration. Most local shops here have the pistols with the safety/decocker on the slide.
I just want a DAO without the lever.
Is this a feasible DIY conversion ?

Want to go from this...
Picture008-1.jpg


...to this
005.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg


Local store has a nice .45 but with the safety/decocking lever.
 
Register to hide this ad
I could be wrong but without the decocker you would have a SA only. It's the ability to rack and chamber a round then decock that gives you the DA for the first round.
 
It's possible to convert to DAO but I don't believe it makes much sense to do so. First of all, the DAO guns generally are slightly cheaper than the TDA guns on the market. Any money you put into the conversion adds to the loss of value. Second, what you end up with is considerably less than the factory DAO pistol,..........you don't have the shorter and smoother staged DA trigger function of the factory gun. What you have is a gun that only has the full DA stroke of the TDA without SA function.

So you start with a more expensive gun and spend money to convert to a poor example of a less expensive gun. I think you're better off searching for a factory DAO 4553 unless you simply cannot find one.
 
Hi, Dregg!

DA/SA to DAO conversion: Very Easy!

DAO to DA/SA conversion: Not So Much!

I can provide details if you are truly interested.

John

I think it would be a great thing to see how easy the conversion is. Thanks for the info.
 
Hi, Dregg!

DA/SA to DAO conversion: Very Easy!

DAO to DA/SA conversion: Not So Much!

I can provide details if you are truly interested.

John

John,

Yes, very interested because the DAO variants in .45 are very hard to come by in my neck of the woods.
 
Has anyone ever tried sticking a .45ACP barrel in a 4053 single-stack? The 4053 is built on the .45 frame,........only thing I'm not sure of is the breech face. The 4053 doesn't seem to be difficult to find. I've got a pair of them and I don't even like that model,.......I just find them too cheap to pass up.
 
I think that it's interesting that you've done the conversion(twice in fact,.....TDA/DAO and DAO/TDA), but in my opinion you've short changed yourself on the DAO experience both times. Neither the 4043TSW you started with nor the DAO 6906 conversion you built have the true short pull DAO that the Smiths are famous for. They're both the later simplified-for-production long pull version which is a distant second in my mind. I don't like any of those either and I LOVE the early version DAO.
 
I think that it's interesting that you've done the conversion(twice in fact,.....TDA/DAO and DAO/TDA), but in my opinion you've short changed yourself on the DAO experience both times. Neither the 4043TSW you started with nor the DAO 6906 conversion you built have the true short pull DAO that the Smiths are famous for. They're both the later simplified-for-production long pull version which is a distant second in my mind. I don't like any of those either and I LOVE the early version DAO.

I don't feel too short-changed, kaveman.
Simply substituting the early style DAO trigger and hammer would produce the trigger pull that you prefer.

And I don't know what you mean by "simplified-for-production".
The only major difference is the loss of the extended slide and frame and the inability to convert. I would say that's an improvement.

Still, this is the TSW DAO which has the partially reset hammer almost exactly like the early DAO.
Not true double action.

Besides, it was an exercise. I prefer TDA.

John
 
Has anyone ever tried sticking a .45ACP barrel in a 4053 single-stack? The 4053 is built on the .45 frame,........only thing I'm not sure of is the breech face. The 4053 doesn't seem to be difficult to find. I've got a pair of them and I don't even like that model,.......I just find them too cheap to pass up.

You are correct.
The breech faces are different. What's more, the .45 mags wont fit in a .40 single stack frame. (With the exception of the CS40 and CS45. I put a CS45 slide and magazine on and in my CS40 and voila, I have a CS45.)

John
 
Ah,......right you are. The single stack 4053 is built on a .45 'length' frame but is still .40 single stack width. Converting to 10mm would be simple but not to .45. I was thinking of one of my other favorite DAO models; the Mauser M2. Frame and magwell are identical in both the .40S&W and the .45ACP but that's because it's a double stack. You can mix and match calibers simply by swapping barrel/slide assemblies no matter which frame you start with.

Nice thing about both the 4053 and the Mauser M2 .40 is the untapped potential of opening up the chamber to 10mm and removing the spacer block in the magazine, but that doesn't help with converting to .45ACP.

What I meant by "simplified-for-production" is just that,......the later DAO series did away with the unique lengthened slide by doing away with the short action, half-cocked hammer. Not an improvement in any sense of the word other than internal S&W inventory control. It makes it easier(cheaper)for S&W to manufacture the gun and stock parts. Like everything else, the cheapening is marketed as an improvement.
 
What I meant by "simplified-for-production" is just that,......the later DAO series did away with the unique lengthened slide by doing away with the short action, half-cocked hammer.

Respectfully, kaveman. No they did not.

I applaud the Smith & Wesson engineers and designers for converting their excellent TDA fire control system to the "imitation Glock" trigger in the DOA models.

S&W retained the "imitation Glock" trigger in the TSW models by using the very same "pre-staged", "short-action", "half-cock" design from the early "imitation Glock trigger" DAO models.
They just "half-cocked" the hammer by a few less degrees by changing the notches a very small amount on the trigger and hammer on the TSW models. And that allowed them to eliminate that unsightly slide and frame extension to hide the "half-cock" hammer.

I won't argue TDA vs. DAO but I can certainly understand the proponents, especially those who appreciate the simpler manual-of-arms, but I have been fortunate to have been able to pull the triggers on a lot of pistols in the last 40 years.
And that includes the early DAO pistols.

Like I said before, the designers and engineers found a way to make their pistol simpler to operate by modifying it into a really bad single action.
Others may like them, but the worst true single action trigger release on any S&W pistol I've tried was still much better than the very best DAO.
One day I may get my hands on an older DAO trigger and hammer and install it.
And if I can, maybe I can find one of the original light-weight mainsprings that S&W installed in the early models to give them that great trigger pull the DAO guys talk about.
But I'll need to find it in the aftermarket because S&W now only catalogs the full strength mainspring for all DAO and TDA models.

Light primer strikes, maybe?

John
 
What I meant by "simplified-for-production" is just that,......the later DAO series did away with the unique lengthened slide by doing away with the short action, half-cocked hammer. Not an improvement in any sense of the word other than internal S&W inventory control. It makes it easier(cheaper)for S&W to manufacture the gun and stock parts. Like everything else, the cheapening is marketed as an improvement.

I guess we can agree to disagree because, respectfully, yes they did,...........and you say as much in your reply.

S&W changed the early version DAO from a smooth and relatively light half-cock action(that required the lengthened slide and frame)to a lesser quarter-cock DAO which did not require special and unique major parts and they traded off the better trigger action simply for a reduction in manufacturing and inventory costs. To hide the change they stenciled "Tactical Smith & Wesson" on the slide and piled on some marketing.

Personally, I think the shorter slide(standard length)TSW's are kind of ugly. I guess I've been looking at the original version DAO for so long that anything else looks weird. I use the visual cue of the oddly shaped firing pin retainer of the TSW's to reject the guns from any search. That and rails,.......makes it easy to sift through the chaff. Different tastes. The only exception I've found is the 4053TSW. Those still have the round retainer, long slide and short DAO. Perhaps later ones do not? Don't know, but I've got three of them that do.

My only contention is that while mechanically possible, converting a TDA to DAO simply doesn't make any sense,.........it's the expensive way to go about getting a poor substitute.

I don't blame S&W for making the change any more than I blame them for the Value series or the entire elimination of the 3rd Gen pistols. I don't blame them for the Sigma and SD or the subsequent changes to VE either,............I just recognize all those things as an effort to compete in the market against a blocky, soulless piece of plastic from Austria,............possibly the best $200 pistol ever built.
 
I only own one S&W semi-auto as I am more of a revolver and military arms fan. The one that I own is a police trade in Model 4046 DAO 40s&w that I picked up a little over a year ago from a friend of the family for $200. Carried but fired very little. I just can't get used to the DAO. My duty weapon was a Sig P226 Here's a pic of the 4046. Best regards. Rich
 

Attachments

  • 100_1471.jpg
    100_1471.jpg
    107.4 KB · Views: 25
Back
Top