Demise of the Local Gun Shop

[flundertaker]

I am just wondering peoples thoughts on the this subject. I have mixed emotions especially since its not because of Uncle Sugar or overly restrictive State laws but rather online competition. Here is the story. I live in Florida. We have pretty gun friendly laws and there certainly are no shortage of gun toting Floridians. In the last 2 months five (5) gun shops in an area I visit frequently have closed shop.

Action Gun and Archery (2 Locactions) in Melbourne
Ammo Attic in Melbourne
The Gun Lady in Merritt Island
The Shooters Den in Melbourne
Indian River Outdoors in Port St. John

The fact that these shops have gone out of business when gun sales continue to soar tells me that people are buying guns, just not from them. As far as competition, the only real new entry into the market has been Bass Pro in Palm Bay but they're prices are higher than these shops were and their selection is not that great. I can only surmise that most people are buying online. I have done this as well but not with any new gun, only used. The problem I see coming down the pike is that most remaining shops dont do transfers, or do so selectively. It would seem that those looking to save money may, in fact, have cut their own throat. The shops doing transfers have folded and now most left wont do them. Was it the cheap transfers that shuttered the shops? I cant say that for sure. Each of them had their share of issues, either inventory or prices typically. Maybe a couple of these shops got buried in stuff they ordered and paid too much for during the panic but didnt receive until after it subsided and the bottom fell out of the market on black guns. I try to support the LGS even if I dont buy a gun from them. I usually buy a box or two of their ammo, even when it is 15-25% more than I can pay online or pick up some cleaning supplies. I am wondering if I should have done more. I dont want all the LGS to go belly up but at the same time, some of the remaining ones have some policies and practices that are tough to deal with and support as a customer.

Anyone else see this happening in their area? Also how much additional (as a percentage) are you willing to pay a brick and mortar LGS for the same item you could get online, all in (taxes vs shipping, etc)?

 

[GaryS]

Gun sales have flattened, but not enough to account for shops closing. Ironically, in gun unfriendly MA, there have been several new shops opening in the past 2-3 years. One that opened about five years ago recently moved to a new location at least three times as large.

Transfer prices vary widely around here, so we can take our pick.

You list four shops in Melbourne. I don't know how big that city is, but it would seem like an awful lot of competition in a small area.

The Bass Pro around here is at the top end price wise for guns. They are competitive, but not cheap, for ammunition.

The cheapest prices for ammo, especially range fodder, is Walmart. They don't have the greatest selection generally, but have the most common calibers. During the recent ammo panic, they didn't have much and the LGS around here generally had something even if not in great quantities.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I don't buy guns online. I buy primarily from two LGS's that I have patronized for years. The proprietors are my friends, and have been so for years. If they can't get it for me at the price I'm willing to pay, I don't need it. I'll buy accessories and such online, but even with those, sometimes it's easier to walk in, grab a chair, and say, "Hey, I need a . . . . " Owner shoots a price, I say make it so, and in a couple days I've got my part. Sometimes I'll toss a holster or other part that I don't need their way, and they can sell it or keep it. We have conversations about the state of things in the news, and we ask genuinely interested about each other's family. The gun trade, to me, is a completely different animal than buying electronics or tools or clothes, given the quirky investment nature of firearms. They're a tool for many invaluable purposes, they're decorative, and they also constitute an investment, even if you don't lock them in a safe and never touch them. The purchase and sale of such an item is so much more than a sterile internet transaction, or at least I think it should be.

If you keep your gun dealer happy, he'll keep you happy.

 

[Taurus627]

I'm in small town South Dakota and we are seeing the opposite. We now have 3 gun stores and 3 box stores including WalMart selling guns and all are thriving. When it comes to buying firearms, I find it so much easier to just pay the little extra locally and avoid the hassle of on line purchases. I find I don't buy to much on line unless it parts and pieces but since a new shop called Brotherhood Arms opened up about 6 months back, I get 99% of what I need from them. They are locally owned and the service is awesome.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Random thoughts...

LGS operators are such a mixed bag... from knowledgeable helpful folks to arrogant jerks. Pretty tough to pigeonhole them as a group.

Over the years I've drifted more towards Net purchases for guns, ammo and accessories. There are so many new guns and products these days that the LGS is largely clueless and has no inventory. Plenty of feedback and "reviews" on the Net so the value of LGS expertise (which is lacking anyway) continues to be of less value to average Joe. LGS usually can't compete with the Net on price, and in states with high sales tax rates the gap is just too large for buyers to ignore. Absent information, inventory and competitive pricing, most all LGS operators around here have an indoor range.

The president of our rifle club has an FFL. All he does with it is transfers. So that works out pretty well in that ya don't have to ask a LGS operator to do a transfer on a gun you didn't buy from him. He stays busy.

Of course some guys look to the LGS as a place to find friendship and someone who can't escape from their bad breath.

 

[loknload]

I will always patronize my local gun shop for everything unless I need something in a hurry and they are not open, and that doesn't happen to often!
In a way I take care of them and they take care of me!

 

[Muss Muggins]

Hard to argue with . . .

Random thoughts...

LGS operators are such a mixed bag... from knowledgeable helpful folks to arrogant jerks. Pretty tough to pigeonhole them as a group.

Over the years I've drifted more towards Net purchases for guns, ammo and accessories. There are so many new guns and products these days that the LGS is largely clueless and has no inventory. Plenty of feedback and "reviews" on the Net so the value of LGS expertise (which is lacking anyway) continues to be of less value to average Joe. LGS usually can't compete with the Net on price, and in states with high sales tax rates the gap is just too large for buyers to ignore. Absent information, inventory and competitive pricing, most all LGS operators around here have an indoor range.

The president of our rifle club has an FFL. All he does with it is transfers. So that works out pretty well in that ya don't have to ask a LGS operator to do a transfer on a gun you didn't buy from him. He stays busy.

Of course some guys look to the LGS as a place to find friendship and someone who can't escape from their bad breath.

 

[labworm]

I make all my purchases at my LGS, like keeping him in business.
Also has the lowest prices in the state.

MA Res Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall.

 

[GaryS]

As labworm will attest, in MA buying on line, especially for handguns, isn't an option. The law on what can be transferred in from out of state is convoluted and open to interpretation. Most dealers don't want the aggravation. The law is such that the penalty applies to the MA FFL, not the sending FFL, the seller, or the buyer.

If a MA FFL does a transfer for a gun "not on the list", I get to keep the gun and he gets a $5K fine.

Hence most dealers won't risk it. Some won't even transfer in a long gun and I know one that won't transfer in an unbuilt AR lower.

All of which is my long winded way of saying that I buy all of my guns from an LGS.

Based on some of the horror stories I've read about people getting guns that were not as advertised and then having to chase the seller to get a refund, I'm not sure I'm missing that much.

I make all my purchases at my LGS, like keeping him in business.
Also has the lowest prices in the state.

MA Res Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall.

 

[labworm]

I have purchased some hand guns from Carl locally that would have cost a great deal more online.

If I am going to slap down $600.00, I want to see it in my hand.

 

[Arik]

Pa is gun friendly and I have 5 or 6 gun shops within a 10 min drive of me. I know of one that closed. It was just before the panic. Their prices were stupid high on used guns. They priced themselves out of business. They seemed to always look at the highest price that model can bring without taking into consideration the condition.

Out of all the gun shops I mainly use 2 for my purchasing. Both have what I want at very good competitive prices.ive bought very nice S&W 36 revolvers for $350 and under. The $350 is in VG condition and the other had holster wear and was $199.

Paid less than $600 for this early 66 with box, tools, and a presentation box.

I've bought HKs for under $500 at one and 3rd Gen S&W 45s for under $400 at the other. Both stores are busy as can be.

Here's their 22lr
https://m.facebook.com/TannersSport...1422743983./876380279050113/?type=1&source=42

The other store you can look up online at Phoenix Distributiors gunbroker

 

[federali]

In the absence of repressive gun laws, my guess is that there were more gun stores opened than the local market could support. In many cases, an employee working for an hourly wage, sees the volume of guns being sold and he knows what his hourly wage is. So, if he wants a bigger piece of the pie, he opens his own shop. I can't say this happened in Florida but people opening gun shops must have at least a hint of how to run a gun business.

I saw that happen on Long Island when an employee of Leslie Edelman's, a gun store the size of a supermarket, left and opened his business a few miles away called "Danny D's Sportarama." Both firms are now history.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

I need a member here who has their FFL to chime in on the yearly cost to re-new their FFL.

Isn't the yearly cost pretty high? That, along with the other costs to remain as a brick and mortar store. A store would have to have some pretty serious sales of guns and supplies to remain open.

As far as the big brick and mortar stores, like Cabela's and Bass Pro and some of the bigger ones, they sell more stuff besides just guns and gun supplies to make up for their total income, in order to stay open.

Granted, they are not brick and mortar stores, but some of the FFL guys operating out of their house, have pretty much given up because the cost just wasn't worth the benefit. Plus too, the fed requirements about operating out of the home.


I still have of one of my guns I bought new from a FFL fellow that operated out of his house, way back when...He was able to order it, and sent to him.

WuzzFuzz

 

[Irn-Bru]

I like to purchase from my LGS but it's getting harder and harder. I recently bought a Sig P938 online for $515 delivered. My LGS wouldn't budge of the $700 price tag, tax excluded. I don't mind over paying a little, just not a lot. The other side of the coin is selling to a LGS store. I recently wanted to sell a gun and the best he could do was $170. Again I understand I'm not going to get full value but that was too low. Sold it privately for $250 but would have taken $200 from my dealer, again he wouldn't budge. I probably buy 3-4 guns a year from him, and buy my ammo too.

 

[Johnmuratore]

I live in Central Mass and there are 3 LGS within 15 minutes of my place. Bought all my firearms from all 3 of them. Paid $499 for my 45c and priced it at $569 at Bass Pro and BPs ammo doesn't even come close to Walmart.
IMO BPs only good for lookin'.

Oh, and they remember my name for about a week at the LGS after I buy something.

 

[Rastoff]

The fact that these shops have gone out of business when gun sales continue to soar tells me that people are buying guns, just not from them.

I take it you've never owned a retail store? Neither have I, but this statement is too narrow.

If a gun store were to attempt to stay in business by only selling guns, they wouldn't last long no matter where people bought guns. The markup on guns is really small when compared to accessories and ammo. A gun might cost a local dealer $500 from the manufacturer and he'll only be able to sell it for $600. A 20% markup will have you out of business in no time.

No, the money is in accessories. They can mark those up 100% or more. That's what keeps the lights on.

Further, guns are a one time purchase. Even if the markup were better, people usually only buy one. Sure there are gun nuts like me that have a bunch, but we're really rare in the big scheme. It's the ammo, targets, shirts and other stuff that keep people spending their money there.

I need a member here who has their FFL to chime in on the yearly cost to re-new their FFL.

No you don't. A few seconds on the ATF website will tell you that it's $90 to renew an FFL. Not cheap, but not ridiculous either. Nope, this alone is not putting guys out of business either.

 

[Dan Christopher]

Our gun shops here do pretty well. They ought to...I spend a lot of money in them!

 

[howiema]

I am going to give you my 2 cents here, Locally I work in a larger store but not a huge gun store. family owned 30 years. What hurts the smaller stores is the Buyers groups that are established by the Larger or largest stores around including the Mammoth Dick's chains and Bass Pro's Etc. One of tthe larger stand alone stores has his buyers group, you cannot compete with his prices especially S&W so he gets first shot at all the new stuff at a less expensive price. More volume less markup. Also the big box stores order direct as the local mom and pops must buy from a distributor IE Ellet Brothers, JSC etc. The big stores can commit to million dollar ammo orders and the smaller ones get whats left. These are some reasons I believe the corner gun store is going down the drain. Once again just my 2 cents

Pete

 

[Arik]

I take it you've never owned a retail store? Neither have I, but this statement is too narrow.

If a gun store were to attempt to stay in business by only selling guns, they wouldn't last long no matter where people bought guns. The markup on guns is really small when compared to accessories and ammo. A gun might cost a local dealer $500 from the manufacturer and he'll only be able to sell it for $600. A 20% markup will have you out of business in no time.

No, the money is in accessories. They can mark those up 100% or more. That's what keeps the lights on.

Further, guns are a one time purchase. Even if the markup were better, people usually only buy one. Sure there are gun nuts like me that have a bunch, but we're really rare in the big scheme. It's the ammo, targets, shirts and other stuff that keep people spending their money there.

No you don't. A few seconds on the ATF website will tell you that it's $90 to renew an FFL. Not cheap, but not ridiculous either. Nope, this alone is not putting guys out of business either.

We are on different coasts so it might be different where you are but it's not exactly like that here, especially not at the 2 LGS I frequent. Most money is from guns and ammo, not from accessories. In fact one of the stores barely has any accessories. The other has some but usually all the empty space is filled with boxes of rifles and ammo. This one was recently selling POF 308 rifles for $1399. They bought about 900 and sold most within 3 weeks. $1399 for a rifle that normally goes for $2400. Not long ago they had a sale on M&P 357sig handguns. Brand new $350. Before that there was a sale on FN FNX 45 factory RMR for $700 new. They buy everything from the distributor and blow it out the door.

The other LGS does a ton of police trades. They buy up all police firearms and confiscated firearms and sell them cheap. They have almost no accessories

 

[M3Stuart]

Around here; Cabela's opened up, there's two new 'mom and pop' stores (one is pretty much focused on black rifles but has pistols too, the other is a 'full line' store) PLUS there's a new indoor range that - now get this - was selling 'Executive Memberships' with private lanes, storage areas etc. for...wait for it...$20,000+ INITIAL MEMBERSHIP FEE PLUS several thousand a year in 'maintenance fees'.

AND, all the 'old' LGS's are still around.

Nope, not seeing that around here.