Did the RO make a bad call?

[Professor Frink]

Many years ago, I used to shoot High-power rifle at Fish Canyon in Duarte, CA (no long gone).

I was a young kid and I still considered myself new and was striving to do well. Everyone was nice and welcoming save one. There was a fellow I really disliked. He was endlessly complaining, he was very degrading to new shooters (me), and while he was quick to state that his target was scored incorrectly, he had a very, very lackadaisical attitude toward scoring anyone else’s. I never understood this as he was a Master or a High-Master shooter anyhow, not like I was a threat to him.

Now I wasn’t very good, at best I was adequate. That said I was working hard at getting better. Long story short, I shot a slow fire, prone string, and I was getting scored miss after miss. I wasn’t great, but I was consistent at hitting the target. Well I complained and they radioed down in the butts and whoever was in charge down there gave my target some scrutiny. Turns out there had been no misses, and to put the cherry on top it was the same loudmouth, chuckle-head who was scoring mine.

I approached him as I was headed to the butts and he said something about self-sealing targets and then pointed out that “I wasn’t going to beat him shooting like that anyhow” or something to that affect. As luck had it, I was scoring his, I wanted to mess with him, but I'm not that kind of guy.

 

[dave1918a2]

Posts 4 and 5 nailed it. Next time lodge the complaint, but don't be a "d**k.

 

[Wise_A]

I hate that ****! Same thing happened to me once Multiple shots in a cluster so the RO called a miss when he couldn't count all the hits in the center of the target. Even though all 50 were 9, 10, and X ring.

I don't know what IPSC/IDPA/ICORE/whatever rules are, but NRA regulations stipulate that the benefit of the doubt be given to the shooter. I can't imagine those other disciplines are much different.

Fun fact, however, in the Precision Rifle Series, an observer must witness the shot's impact on the steel plate. If they don't see it, it's scored as a miss. This has led to the .223 being abandoned by most competitive shooters, who have mostly settled on 6mm cartridges, which are way to numerous to mention.

In practice, I tend to watch the shooter's gun from behind and slightly off to the strong side, so the target is visible in the background. It's not hard to watch impacts. On the are occasions that somebody managed to have a one-ragged-hole, a bunch of fliers, and a score that was failing but very close to passing, I'd score it as passing.

Due to aforementioned moron, the shooters in question were taking the live-fire test after struggling to stay awake for 4-6 hours in what passed for classroom instruction, standing around for a couple hours waiting to shoot (literally standing, as no provision was made for them to sit), then firing the entire course of fire "for practice".

In competition? A little different, since giving a point to one may take away a point from another. But it's very rarely that difficult to judge, and if you're too tired to watch for impacts, as an RO/RSO you should step back and take a break.

 

[S&WIowegan]

USPSA/IDPA bullet holes in paper targets are pasted over after every shooter. Steel targets should be repainted after each shooter but often aren't for Level 1 matches. Normally the steel needs to be knocked down to score.

I have experienced the one large hole target situation when qualifying for CCW permit. Most instructors know this can happen with good shooters. Also, if a good shooter pulled a shot out of the center, the hole is probably still on paper. It's the really bad shooters that are problems.

 

[pantannojack]

Clubs can be at times a damage to my desirable mental state. Last year I had to quit one because of a pugnacious RM. I agree that RM's must not be countered or argued with for safety discipline. But when one (RM) chooses to repeatedly call on a grown male member using a feminization of his name, constantly referring to all the member's equipment as junk (including his Bronco), implying that it is a member's duty to not come around so much so that non members can have preference, and when this member mentioned to one of the directors the situation ( the director was experiencing the same abuse), then the member gets a personal phone call from the RM describing him as a chicken for not wanting a on the
premises confrontation. That means I gotta quit.

 

[fredj338]

Lesson learned. Competition is about 75% mental. If you let an SO or other shooter get in your head, then jmo, its on you. Thete Are good SO & bad ones, even at the highest levels. I am an Idpa CSO, worked nationals & a world event just last year. Poop happens, but the best SO will always give the doubt to the shooter. A good SO should never determine the outcome of a stage or match.
Lesson learned, if the SO is in your way, run into him. It is an automatic reshoot in idpa. I have even had a smart shooter mess up & stage & try to run into me. I try to never be in the way but sometimes poop happens.

 

[fredj338]

USPSA/IDPA bullet holes in paper targets are pasted over after every shooter. Steel targets should be repainted after each shooter but often aren't for Level 1 matches. Normally the steel needs to be knocked down to score.

I have experienced the one large hole target situation when qualifying for CCW permit. Most instructors know this can happen with good shooters. Also, if a good shooter pulled a shot out of the center, the hole is probably still on paper. It's the really bad shooters that are problems.

Well nothing in idpa rules about panting steel. In fact doesnt have to be painted at all. I've shot a bunch of sanctioned matches, all tiers, nats & worlds, only one match painted for each shooter, pita time suck. Most will paint each squad, thats about it.

 

[fredj338]

Wanna hear a good one? There’s a CCW instructor around here that pulls that stunt. To the point that if someone groups fifty shots into a 5” ragged hole, he tries to mark the target a fail. Lemme break that line of reasoning down.

*“I’m so pro-gun, I created this class and test so you guys can have CCW permits!”
*”One ragged hole, fifty shots? Better than I can do, so it must be 20 hits and 30 misses!”
*”Turns out I like CCW less than I like money. Come back next month with a $50 re-shoot fee!”

He also doesn’t score shots that break a scoring ring as the higher of the two scores. Despite the fact that the Sheriff’s course guidelines--that this particular moron of an instructor wrote/photocopied from a neighboring county--specify NRA scoring rules.

I have, in fact, already called him a moron directly. When someone pointed out the questionable judgement of insulting an armed individual, I shrugged and replied, “What’s he going to do, shoot me? Besides, he carries empty-chamber. I don’t.”

Ever see him shoot? He is probably a terrible shooter & that is his way of gettng back at the good shooters. I have seen idpa SO try & give the top shooters any penalty they can scrape up, because they are jealous. We banned one such SO from our local club. I am now the SO instructor for idpa in socal. I have a national rep as a good CSO, know the rules & treat the shooters with respect. After all, they paid to be there, they deserve good staff. That is my teaching philosophy.

 

[Stroker468]

This reads to me that the RO was a real ******. I’m always amazed by how some people let a little bit of insignificant “authority” go to their head. Kinda like that little league ref/umpire most of us have run into. They let their “costume” overload theirs axx.

...additionally, the shooter that jumped in line for the reshoot should have insisted it be handled differently.

I shot early IPSC in the late ‘70s-early 80s...usually the youngest participant. Everyone did their own “smithing”. There were no race guns at that point. No high capacity .45’s, and if you had a ramped barrel, everyone wanting to have a look at it..LOL.

At that time, it wasn’t very formal. Like you mentioned, most participants offered help, took turns officiating, patched targets...but more importantly, helped everyone else. It was very friendly and inclusive. It was all for fun. I’m guessing not so much anymore.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

My RO issue was directly related to a poor stage layout and a ******* RO. In the middle of the stage there was an IPCS perforated cardboard target 3 feet back from the edge of a barrier (wall). Most everyone was shooting 9mm and .45 ACP, so it wasn't a problem for them. I came to the end of the barrier and fired the requisite 2 shots into the target with my .357 Magnum. When it came time to score my run (not that I was in contention for a victory or high finish anyway using my duty revolver and duty rig) the RO said he couldn't score that target because the center had been completely blown out along the perforations by my muzzle blast. One of the other competitors pointed out that the blown out cardboard was on the ground behind the target, so the RO picked it up, said there was only one hole in it, dropped it back on the ground, and refused to give me credit for the target. I requested the range master for a ruling, and the RM said it was the RO's call to make. I packed my stuff up and left the range without completing the match.

 

[BC38]

Zombie thread!