Disabling EZ 380 PC Grip Safety?

[doc540]

Is it a technically verifiable fact that disabling the grip safety on an EZ 380 PC will increase the risk of the gun firing if dropped?

In other words, is the grip safety essential to increase an EZ 380 PC's "drop safe status"?

This is not a legality, risk question.

It's a mechanical/design question for those who can verify/document an answer.

thnx

 

[ken158]

I don't have an EZ but if you look at a schematic and see what happens when the safety is and isn’t depressed will likely show you if you could deactivate it successfully where it would still fire. Better idea is to just trade it off for a Shield.

 

[doc540]

I don't have an EZ but if you look at a schematic and see what happens when the safety is and isn’t depressed will likely show you if you could deactivate it successfully where it would still fire. Better idea is to just trade it off for a Shield.

Thanks, but that didn't answer the question that I went out of my way to be clear about.

 

[Jon651]

I don't think very many people are qualified to answer your question in the manner in which you put it because no personal user/owner has taken the time to perform the drop tests needed to verify any theory. However, it is apparent just by handling the weapon that if you don't have the grip safety pressed in you cannot move the trigger to the rear, and if it is pressed in you can move the trigger to the rear.

Therefore, if you disable the grip safety (by using a rubber band or wrap of electrical tape, for example) whatever action you perform with the pistol that causes the trigger to move to the rear can possibly fire the gun.

The grip safety performs the same function as the jointed trigger on striker-fired pistols. Frankly I don't think S&W would go through all the design and production issues to put the grip safety in place for drop-firing prevention if it wasn't intended to work.

 

[gc70]

Is it a technically verifiable fact that disabling the grip safety on an EZ 380 PC will increase the risk of the gun firing if dropped?

YES.

Depressing the grip safety raises a bar in the left side of the frame that lifts the firing pin safety so that the firing pin is not blocked from forward movement.

Disabling the grip safety by tying or pining it down would be tantamount to removing the firing pin safety, which would obviously increase the gun's risk of firing if dropped. However, it would be a bit more complex, because the bar that the grip safety moves must be able to drop down (grip safety not depressed) for the slide to be removed or reinstalled (see page from manual below).

If the bar that is raised by the grip safety was removed, the condition of the grip safety would become irrelevant, but then there would be nothing to lift the firing pin safety. Thus, the firing pin safety would also have to be removed to be able to fire the gun. And removing the firing pin safety would be an obvious no-no.

 

[doc540]

YES.

Depressing the grip safety raises a bar in the left side of the frame that lifts the firing pin safety so that the firing pin is not blocked from forward movement.

Disabling the grip safety by tying or pining it down would be tantamount to removing the firing pin safety, which would obviously increase the gun's risk of firing if dropped. However, it would be a bit more complex, because the bar that the grip safety moves must be able to drop down (grip safety not depressed) for the slide to be removed or reinstalled (see page from manual below).

If the bar that is raised by the grip safety was removed, the condition of the grip safety would become irrelevant, but then there would be nothing to lift the firing pin safety. Thus, the firing pin safety would also have to be removed to be able to fire the gun. And removing the firing pin safety would be an obvious no-no.

Thanks, that's the kind of answer I was looking for.

 

[ken158]

Thanks, but that didn't answer the question that I went out of my way to be clear about.

My answer was to suggest a direction for you to look to consider the answer to your question, rather then give you an engineering answer.

 

[8baller]

YES.

Depressing the grip safety raises a bar in the left side of the frame that lifts the firing pin safety so that the firing pin is not blocked from forward movement.

Disabling the grip safety by tying or pining it down would be tantamount to removing the firing pin safety, which would obviously increase the gun's risk of firing if dropped. However, it would be a bit more complex, because the bar that the grip safety moves must be able to drop down (grip safety not depressed) for the slide to be removed or reinstalled (see page from manual below).

If the bar that is raised by the grip safety was removed, the condition of the grip safety would become irrelevant, but then there would be nothing to lift the firing pin safety. Thus, the firing pin safety would also have to be removed to be able to fire the gun. And removing the firing pin safety would be an obvious no-no.

This is a great explanation! I wanted to throw in my two cents after spending some time recently learning about the safeties and their operation.

I have the 380 EZ with thumb safety, which adds another layer to the pie. With the thumb safety off (which I assume causes the gun to mimic the non-thumb-safety model), the grip safety moves two pieces upward. The first is the lever which disengages the firing pin safety, which is on the left side as I look from the rear of the firearm. The second is a small piece which is attached to the trigger bar, which, when raised, aligns the trigger bar with the sear. If that piece is not raised, the trigger/trigger bar assembly can be moved rearward, but will not contact the sear.

The thumb safety on my 380 EZ appears to block the upward motion of that small piece, thereby keeping the trigger bar unaligned with the sear. So, with the grip safety depressed and the thumb safety on, the firing pin safety is disengaged but the trigger bar is not allowed to align with the sear.

In this way - thumb safety on, grip safety depressed - a measure of drop safety is, in my mind, still retained, since the trigger can move rearward without firing a round (trigger bar will not contact sear). However, since the depressed grip safety disengages the firing pin safety, any inadvertent disengagement of the sear and hammer would fire a round. I don't know if dropping a gun induces any measure of risk of hammer/sear disengagement, but if it does, you're not drop safe.

Open to any and all corrections on my understanding of how these safeties work! I'm used to getting way in the weeds on how things work together.

On a separate note, for those without thumb safeties: if the firearm was dropped, say onto the corner of a sidewalk, directly onto the grip safety... could it possibly fire?

 

[gc70]

I wanted to throw in my two cents after spending some time recently learning about the safeties and their operation.
{snip}
On a separate note, for those without thumb safeties: if the firearm was dropped, say onto the corner of a sidewalk, directly onto the grip safety... could it possibly fire?

Excellent additional information!

While a pistol without a thumb safety could fall in such a way as to depress its grip safety and allow the gun to fire, the odds of that sequence of events happening and the round striking a person are extremely remote.

I don't worry about being struck by a meteorite, even though thousands reach the planet's surface every year, so I don't worry about the remote chance of a discharge as was described.

 

[Execpro]

Welcome to the forum 8baller.
Great explanation! Makes sense to me. I have a 9mm EZ with thumb safety and your description gives me a better understanding of how my gun works. Thanks!

 

[Model 15-4ever]

The pistol is drop safe, even without the thumb safety. However, in my opinion the EZ with grip safety alone is not adequate to prevent inadvertent firing in real world concealed carry situations.

As noted, gripping the pistol depresses the grip safety and deactivates BOTH safety devices: the firing pin block and the trigger bar interrupter. Couple that issue with the short and light trigger pull this pistol has, and it's obvious how an unintended discharge could happen while holstering under stress.

It would not take much to fire this pistol with an obstruction falling into the trigger guard while re-holstering: a shirt tail, a jacket flap, or an adjustment cord or slider on a coat. Have seen it happen on the range with guns with much heavier trigger pulls. The user has to make sure the holster is completely unobstructed, which means looking down at the holster while re-holstering, and of course NOT sticking your support hand over there to help it long. Under stress during/after a confrontation, that is perhaps a bit too much for many.

I suppose S&W wanted the pistol to have a light trigger pull as part of the "EZ" marketing, and timing the firing pin block release to the trigger press might have ruined that. I like the pistol, but mine has the thumb safety.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

So if I understand correctly, removing the grip safety will render the pistol inoperative. It would have to be pinned in the engaged position if the goal were to eliminate the feature.

 

[DWG@]

380 EZ grip safety

My wife was having issue with the grip safety due to arthritis in her hands. I researched some ideas.. to include those on this site. I looked at various Hogue grips and I settled on the model 17040. It fits like a glove, even over the Talon Grip that I installed when we bought the weapon. There is some slight looseness or gap where the mags are inserted but its not at all overly noticeable. It comes off easy enough when you want to field strip the weapon (the grip safety can not be depressed when removing and installing the slide). This model has the additional safety that she can operate with no problem. She is happy, therefore I am. Hope this helps.

 

[FLJoe]

The pistol is drop safe, even without the thumb safety. However, in my opinion the EZ with grip safety alone is not adequate to prevent inadvertent firing in real world concealed carry situations.

As noted, gripping the pistol depresses the grip safety and deactivates BOTH safety devices: the firing pin block and the trigger bar interrupter. Couple that issue with the short and light trigger pull this pistol has, and it's obvious how an unintended discharge could happen while holstering under stress.

It would not take much to fire this pistol with an obstruction falling into the trigger guard while re-holstering: a shirt tail, a jacket flap, or an adjustment cord or slider on a coat. Have seen it happen on the range with guns with much heavier trigger pulls. The user has to make sure the holster is completely unobstructed, which means looking down at the holster while re-holstering, and of course NOT sticking your support hand over there to help it long. Under stress during/after a confrontation, that is perhaps a bit too much for many.

I suppose S&W wanted the pistol to have a light trigger pull as part of the "EZ" marketing, and timing the firing pin block release to the trigger press might have ruined that. I like the pistol, but mine has the thumb safety.

I agree wholeheartedly. The EZ has a great trigger for fast accurate shooting, and I really love shooting mine, but I am very careful with all administrative handling, especially reholstering. I have the thumb safety on mine, and I've developed the habit of only pressing the pistol into the holster by pressure on the back of the slide, not the grip, which would disengage the grip safety. I have one holster on which the inside bit of leather that goes between me and the rear of the gun slide onece caught the thumb safety in such a way that it disengaged the safety as I was holstering.

Being that the grip safety is what keeps the firing pin block functioning, I would never disable the grip safety for any reason. If someone is having a hard time gripping the pistol in a way that disengaged the safety reliably, I've seen aftermarket, thicker safety bars available that might solve the problem.

 

[Mike-AK]

Common sense should tell you that disabling a safety device is not going to make the pistol safer. That one is a no brainer. That said, there are quite a few folks who have pinned the grip safety on 1911s. No reason I could think of that it could not be done on a 380 EZ. Whether it would create takedown problems like depressing the grip safety on my Equalizer I don’t know I use the Equalizer as my EDC. I carry IWB, and frankly, having a grip safety in addition to the thumb safety brings peace of mind when shoving a pistol down my pants.

 

[rwsmith]

Just a tad off subject but while we are at it here.....

Many holster have retaining strap that holds the back of the gun to keep it from coming out of the holster until yout unfasten it. I try to put the strap behind the slide, but it won't stay so I have to put it over the grip where it pushes in on the safety unless I fasten it loosely, which is ok. My .380 and 9mm EZs both have thumb safetys, but until I figured it out I kinda wondered about it.

 

[Mike-AK]

Many holster have retaining strap that holds the back of the gun to keep it from coming out of the holster until yout unfasten it. I try to put the strap behind the slide, but it won't stay so I have to put it over the grip where it pushes in on the safety unless I fasten it loosely, which is ok. My .380 and 9mm EZs both have thumb safetys, but until I figured it out I kinda wondered about it.

Kydex is your friend.