Disappointed with my first 32 ACP reloads, Resolved!

[walnutred]

Using Rimrock RNFP bullets I loaded up 20 each using 1.8, 1.9 and 2.0 of Bullseye powder. Pistols are a CZ70 and a Zastava M70. At 25' my reloads are hitting 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" low with the 2.0 gn charge being the lowest. Groups are 2-3 times the size of groups with factory ball ammo, which shoots to point of aim at 25'. All loads cycled both guns so I may try a batch of 1.7gn BE before I try W231. Seating is a little shorter OAL than factory ball because the shape of the FP bullet. I'm using a FCT die in the last stage. The ball ammo was a mixed lot so no gaming there but I was getting honest 1.5" groups with it from the CZ70 with POI at POA. Any thoughts?

 

[robertrwalsh]

Just puzzlement. I load for several .32 ACP pistols and get decent, steady groups. It is a mild PITA loading a cartridge that physically small but seeing as factory ammo is both hard to find and hella expensive right now I just muddle thru. My normal bullet is a Berry's RN plated. Except for the fact I would expect your pistols to like plated or FMJ much better than lead I am at a loss.

 

[walnutred]

I'm not opposed to trying Berrys RN if I have to but I'd like to get these Rimrock to work. I'm also not stranger to loading 32's, I started loading 32 S&W long in the mid 70's. Just never loaded 32 ACP before.

 

[rockquarry]

Using Rimrock RNFP bullets I loaded up 20 each using 1.8, 1.9 and 2.0 of Bullseye powder. Pistols are a CZ70 and a Zastava M70. At 25' my reloads are hitting 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" low with the 2.0 gn charge being the lowest. Groups are 2-3 times the size of groups with factory ball ammo, which shoots to point of aim at 25'. All loads cycled both guns so I may try a batch of 1.7gn BE before I try W231. Seating is a little shorter OAL than factory ball because the shape of the FP bullet. I'm using a FCT die in the last stage. The ball ammo was a mixed lot so no gaming there but I was getting honest 1.5" groups with it from the CZ70 with POI at POA. Any thoughts?

I'm not familiar with Rimrock; are these cast bullets? If so and they are shooting poorly, they may be of the wrong diameter for your gun or maybe the wrong alloy mix for your load or both. Best bet would be to try some other cast bullets, if possible. In a handgun cartridge, a cast bullet of the right alloy and proper fit should at least equal the accuracy of a good jacketed bullet, but the best cast bullet isn't often easy to find if you have to rely on commercial cast bullets.

Also, what is an FCT die? Is this like a Lee factory crimp die? You may not need it. Try your loads without it, and consider using a standard taper crimp die in place of it. Crimp only enough to keep the bullet in place under recoil, and no more. Good luck-

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a batch of 32ACP I loaded in the 1990's. My loading manual says I used 84gr. or 90 gr. RN cast Lyman with 1.4 WW231. Those were for a "Belly Gun" Davis Derringer. I think this is the S&W short load, but it cycled my PPk

Ivan

 

[serger]

I think your bullets are too heavy. These guns are set up
for 71 grain ball. The Rim Rocks are in the 100 grain range.
You need to go to cast boolits and read up on heavy 32 loads.

 

[walnutred]

These bullets are a 75 gn FP sized .313. I would not think the diameter would be an issue as I regularly shoot .358 cast bullets thru my 9x19s and they swag down nicely. By FCT I meant FTC, Factory Taper Crimp.

 

[rockquarry]

These bullets are a 75 gn FP sized .313. I would not think the diameter would be an issue as I regularly shoot .358 cast bullets thru my 9x19s and they swag down nicely. By FCT I meant FTC, Factory Taper Crimp.

I'd still try some different bullets if you can find any these days. The Lee Factory Taper Crimp die if used right may do no harm, but it might be worth the effort and expense to go with a standard taper crimp die and compare results with the Lee die.

 

[zeke]

Would consider following rockquarry's suggestions. What happens in your 9mm may be irrelevant. All lead bullets are not the same hardness, and smaller caliber semi auto's from differing eras/places may not have the same bore dimensions. Some rifling grabs hold of jacketed bullets better, even if they are undersized. If your recording velocities, there may be some more relevant info. What seems really unusual is the hitting low part, which may be a good indicator of a higher velocity than normal, which would seem even more unusual given the loads you tried.

 

[Speedo2]

I have very limited chrono data for my 32ACP reloads, but from what little testing that I've done, I came away with the belief that for the 32ACP:

"Mo hotta, mo betta."

With 2.2 gr W231 under a plated 71 gr RN, I got only around 480 FPS with miserable SD (~20%) from a CZ50 (3-1/4" BBL). With 2.5 gr W231 and 60 gr XTP bullets, they went to 750 FPS with good SD (~4%) from a 2-1/4" Seecamp, which was comparable to factory Hyd-shock ammo from the same gun. I cannot tell you which was more accurate; my 32ACP handguns are more mouse and belly guns than target guns. -S2

 

[serger]

I think your bullets are too heavy. These guns are set up
for 71 grain ball. The Rim Rocks are in the 100 grain range.
You need to go to cast boolits and read up on heavy 32 loads.

I was in wrong and apologise. rockquarry has the best advice. Sorry.

 

[walnutred]

OK, I have some Barrys on order to try. In the mean time I'll try a different crimp die, which I have and maybe W231, which I have. I started to get a slight case bulge with 2.0 gns of BE, which surprised me. Maybe I have too much crimp raising pressure.

 

[rockquarry]

OK, I have some Barrys on order to try. In the mean time I'll try a different crimp die, which I have and maybe W231, which I have. I started to get a slight case bulge with 2.0 gns of BE, which surprised me. Maybe I have too much crimp raising pressure.

You're on the right track. Try as many different component combinations as possible. Many handloaders crimp far more than necessary.

 

[Heinz]

Fire the pistol and then eject the next round unfired and take a close look at the bullet nose. They may be getting damaged in the feeding process.

 

[reddog81]

I pull a bullet or two and check the diameter. They may be starting .313 but unless the expander die is made for large diameter bullets they could be getting swaged down when being seated.

 

[ChuckS1]

Reloading for European pistols can be a challenge. Chamber dimensions and bore diameters can be all over the place. Here’s a post that might help.

And here’s another thread on reloading heavy bullets in the .32 ACP.

Lastly, one more thread on reloading heavy bullets in .32 ACP.

And, here’s a video that has info on reloading for the M70 pistol. In the video the guy says his M70’s bore diameter is .309. Slug your bore and see what the diameter really is. That might be your problem.

My Walther PP has a bore diameter of .310 and I use an 80 grain .311 cast bullet. Anything bigger does not group well.

 

[GBertolet]

As far as the bore diameter goes in those Europen pistols, they are all over the place. My HSC is .309, where as the nominal diameter for the 32 acp is 311-312. I use the Lyman 311252 bullet, which weighs out at 77 grains. That bullet works best for me. My HSC shoots right to the point of aim, with that bullet. Drive a slug through your barrel from the breach to the muzzle. Put some oil or grease on your bullet, when driving it through. You can use a brass rod or a steel one that has some vinyl tape around it, to keep from scoring the rifling. Measure the diameter, and then you know. The fixed sights are usually regulated for the 71 to 80 grain bullets. Anything heavier, and you are in uncharted territory. Heavy bullets can be made to shoot well, but it takes some experimentation, and is it really worth the effort. That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

@walnutred,
Lymans Cast Handbook 4th edition lists 2.5gr W231 as potentially most accurate with a 75gr FN Cast bullet. (that's the max load in the manual) Maybe your gun just doesn't like the Bullseye load.

 

[walnutred]

Does that manual list OAL? I tried plunk testing my loads and they failed the plunk test. So I sized a unprimed case and seated a bullet. After forcing the bullet in as far at a factory round went in I pulled it out and measured. OAL was only .926. Doing more research I found Buffalo Bore uses these same bullets in their 32 ACP +p, seated at .925. So my plan is to A: try a batch with 1.6 and 1.8 of BE at .925. Try some W231, at reduced loads and work up. If the bullet needs seated that deep it's going to reduce headspace above the powder noticeably.

Plan B is wait until my Berrys Bullets arrive and save the Rimrock for 32 S&W loads.

 

[GBertolet]

Ok, I just measured some Fiocchi 32 acp ammo. .975 oal. My reloads are .984, using the 311252 cast bullet. The Lyman manual shows .984 as the max oal. This figure is mainly based on what the magazine will handle lengthwise.

All my 32 acp handloaded rounds have a slight case bulge at where the base of the bullet is. I attribute it to the sizing die reducing the case diameter more than it has to, and I use .309 bullets.