Downtown Piggy: The White Rock threat

[Texas Star]

Saw on the TV news that White Rock Lake in Dallas has a population of feral pigs. I knew about coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, etc. being seen there, but these pigs are probably a serious threat to runners, fishermen, etc.

There are some really high dollar homes around there, and I guess the residents will press for a pig removal program. And I guess that it will be only partially effective.

Say that you had to shoot a pig with a .357 SIG (because that's what the cops carry if they don't want a 9mm), what are the chances that it'll stop one?

The cops will have to shoot issued ammo, which I suspect has a 125 grain bullet. Are heavier bullets available in that caliber? Maybe 140 grains? What velocity?

If the cops shoot a pig with a M-4 carbine, will the 5.56mm suffice? If I was going after wild boars, I'd want my .270 or 7mm-08! And the .375 H&H Magnum isn't really out of place, if somone likes it in that application. I suspect that most who bought the 9.3X64mm and the 9.3X72mm In Europe had boars in mind.

I know that the .357 Magnum revolver is considered marginal by pig hunters. The .357 SIG is a bit shy of that...

White Rock has jogging trails, and birdwatchers and bicyclists hang out there. Not to mention a ghost called the Lady of the Lake. No, she isn't bringing Excalibur to King Arthur; she is supposedly the ghost of a girl who drowned there in the 1940's, and is alleged to have actually gotten into people's cars, then disappeared. Whatever...

But these pigs are real, and an issue. Somebody is going to get hurt, and some yards will be torn up as they forage.

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, I understand lots of pig hunters use .223, often in ARs, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. The .357 Sig, I dunno. Despite the light bullet, it has a reputation for penetration, so it should be OK given good shot placement. Whether good shot placement can be expected of the average police officer is another question.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[A10]

Personally, I'd be alot happier with a .44 or .45 colt, loaded with heavies and running around 1000 fps. That'll pretty much punch through anything from any angle. I wouldn't be too upset if all I had was a .357 magnum, as those are great penetrators. I shot .357 Sig for a while, and it is a hot round but I'd put money that the local PD is carrying 124 grain hollow points, and though that might make a dent I'd doubt it would penetrate enough to get to the vitals in a feral hog. The .556 oughta work, any old school cops out there who still carried a shotgun or a .30-30 (now I'm dating myself) would not be undergunned. JMHO.

 

[ElectroMotive]

Hi, I'm a Dallasite and a fisherman at White Rock Lake.

There certainly are feral hogs at WRL. In addition to the animals you listed there are also white tail deer. In fact 2 years ago Dallas Animal Service tride to rescue a buck that had its antlers stuck in the fence at the Dallas Arboretum, along Garland Rd. You also cant forget about beavers, no, not nutrea. Then there is Miss Olive, a 10ft plus python thats yellow'ish tan with green spots.

With regards to the feral hog problem in Dallas County as a whole, one of the big factors is our beloved sheriff eliminated the "Hog Squad", which was a small group of deputies who patrolled the Trinity River Bottoms, tracking, trapping, and killing feral hogs. With nobody but an overworked DAS to check traps, the hogs have made their way up the various tributaries, like White Rock Creek. At any given night you can see them run down Elm or Main sts in Downtown Dallas, or across Garland Rd.

With regards to shooting them, I have shot 4 feral hogs(not in Dallas). 2 with .357sig. Both times it was with 125gr Speer Gold Dots. I have shot 2 more with 9mm, using 147gr Winchester Ranger Talons. I didnt notice any difference in effectiveness. Both cartridges put them down because I shot put the bullets where I needed to. To me the 9mm gets the advantage because of capacity and faster follow up shots.

Hornady loaded, I dont know if they still do as I have ditched .357sig completely, a 147 gr XTP. The only problem is that its a 9mm bullet, designed to be used at 9mm velocities. Terminal performance could suffer.

If DPD shoots a hog with their ARs, they are just going to make a serious situation that much worse. They are issued a terrible duty load, a 55gr Winchester Ballistic Silvertip. Its a round that has had its fair share of negatives attributed to it, not only with DPD, but with other departments around the US. As it now, that is the general carry load. On the other hand SWAT is issued the 60gr Nosler Partition, whoch is hell on feral hogs. Stays intact, deep penetration, excellent expansion. It should be issued as the general duty load.


In 2010 a little girl was maimed by a feral hog at a Dallas park over around Simpson Stuart Rd. A man was also injured by one up around the Dallas/Irving border. Nobody cares. Those stories barely made it to the DMN, and certainly not on TV. Quite frankly its probably going to take something catastrophic for any action.

 

[ElectroMotive]

Check out the videos by "refidsnab1" on youtube.

The buck that had its antlers stuck in the fence died because during the rescue attempt he thrashed around and broke his neck. He was running with a doe. She was trapped and relocated, but I heard she died as well. Refidsnab1 had video of the rescue attempt.

 

[Texas Star]

Thanks! Could you please tell us where you hit the hogs with those bullets and the performance? Penetration, the hogs' reaction, time to death, etc.

It is true that the media here seems to not be very nature- oriented. They seem to snicker a little on TV when doing wild animal stories, or else they act horrified and just tell people to stay away from snakes, hogs, etc.

Why did you abandon .357 SIG? Was gun wear a factor? Recoil? You mentioned greater ammo capacity in 9mm guns.

I'll check YouTube for those videos.

Thanks for your good response.

 

[Texas Star]

Feral Hogs In Dallas, Texas along Trinity River - YouTube


I couldn't find the buck stuck in the fence, but here are some hogs in Dallas. Don't know their size.

 

[jbull380]

Most PDs issue 12 Ga shotguns loaded with slugs and/or 00 buck. Problem solved.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Feral hogs are all over rural Texas. At night, you encounter them on the road like deer, but pigs are usually smarter about getting out of the way.

 

[Texas Star]

Feral hogs are all over rural Texas. At night, you encounter them on the road like deer, but pigs are usually smarter about getting out of the way.

Rick-

Sure, but these are in a wealthy residential area around a large lake that is widely used for recreation. That was new to me, and a bit scary.

I guess that someone who was threatened could shoot one, if they had a gun. But I'd worry that some cop would make a big deal about firing within the city limits, and there's the risk of injury to others if a bullet misses. (I guess that most handgun bullets won't exit a medium sized pig.)

This is probably not the best place to rely on a .25 or a vest pocket .380...

 

[GatorFarmer]

Feral pigs vary greatly in size. There are circa 100 pounds animals - sometimes less -and then there are reportedly "hogzilla" creatures in some areas that in terms of size, intelligence and tusks would certainly qualify as a dangerous game animal.

The .357 Sig with a good bonded JHP is about dead on with the old 125gr JHP .357 mag loading - at least from a shorter bbl .357 mag, though some companies load the .357 Sig up to where it equals or surpasses the old .357 mag/125gr classic ballistics. The bonded JHP offerings of today seem to stay together better than the older JHP designs, thus resulting in deeper penetration. Heavier bullets are offered from several sources. I haven't checked, but Double Tap might even offer a woods load. (I traded my Sig P229R for a WW2 GI .45 and my Glock 32 towards a second WW2 GI .45.)

Some people continue to kill hogs with spears and large bowie knives. Passes the time I suppose.

When wandering to areas where man eating hogs were

 

[Texas1941]

Feral pigs vary greatly in size. There are circa 100 pounds animals - sometimes less -and then there are reportedly "hogzilla" creatures in some areas that in terms of size, intelligence and tusks would certainly qualify as a dangerous game animal.

The .357 Sig with a good bonded JHP is about dead on with the old 125gr JHP .357 mag loading - at least from a shorter bbl .357 mag, though some companies load the .357 Sig up to where it equals or surpasses the old .357 mag/125gr classic ballistics. The bonded JHP offerings of today seem to stay together better than the older JHP designs, thus resulting in deeper penetration. Heavier bullets are offered from several sources. I haven't checked, but Double Tap might even offer a woods load. (I traded my Sig P229R for a WW2 GI .45 and my Glock 32 towards a second WW2 GI .45.)

Some people continue to kill hogs with spears and large bowie knives. Passes the time I suppose.

When wandering to areas where man eating hogs were

Yes, they come in all sizes and the ones I've seen in urban environments have all run in the 100 lb range. They use the creeks and canals in Brazoria and Galveston counties as Interstates and move pretty much at will. Every few years they will invade expensive neighborhoods in Friendswood, League City, etc. and cause an uproar, but the populations are pretty mobile and eventually they move on, until the next time.

I've hunted hog since I was 12, mostly with a handgun or a pistol caliber lever action. Mainly a 357 or 44 spl. Both seem to work with just about any bullet I happened to have.

I did get one "hogzilla" in the San Bernard river bottom that weighted 405 lbs, using a Marlin 1894 in 357 with a 160 gr Keith.

Buckshot and slugs will work of course, if you can get close enough to use them. Most hogs understand that people are not their friends and they are amazingly fast when they don't want to stick around. If you didn't have anything else, a police type shotgun might work, but there are better choices.

I have an uncle that makes bacon form wild pig, and you wouldn't believe how good it is. Best BLTs I've ever had.

Charles

 

[Bob R]

these are in a wealthy residential area around a large lake that is widely used for recreation.

Sounds like feral pigs are the new armidillos of Texas. Once they start trearing up those manicured lawns and the right people get angry something may be done about them. As long as they are out in the country, no one cares, except those people out in the country.

bob

 

[charlie sherrill]

We get a few around here from time to time. The problem goes away with the opening of deer season. Wild hog mixed with venison makes a great sausage. The smaller pigs are good after smoking them.

 

[ElectroMotive]

Thanks! Could you please tell us where you hit the hogs with those bullets and the performance? Penetration, the hogs' reaction, time to death, etc.

Everytime they never saw me. They were watching the dogs with me playing in the pasture. I always just aimed for a smidge above the shoulder as I am not a hunter. Everytime they just keeled over, one flopped a bit. On all four, by the time I approached them they werent breathing. I didnt take any chances, I always slit their throats.

The 9mm 147gr Ranger Talons always opened up uniformly, as did the .357sig 125gr Gold Dots. That said the 147gr Rangers always had more penetration, and more penetration is always better than less.

Why did you abandon .357 SIG? Was gun wear a factor? Recoil? You mentioned greater ammo capacity in 9mm guns.

I invested heavily into the cartridge. Many firearms, many thousands of rounds. After shooting stuff, living and inanimate, I just didnt feel it did anything better than 9mm. I still dont.

The negatives I see are:

Increased muzzle flash
Increased muzzle blast
Increased felt recoil and muzzle climb
Increased overall wear and tear (Ask Bruce Gray)
Increased cost of ammunition
Decreased firearm lifespan (ask New Mexico State Police about their Glock 31s, better yet ask Glock)
Decreased capacity
Decreased ammunition selection

I'm sure there are others, but its been 4 years since I ditched the caliber


Some will want to bring up TXDPS or DPD, but both agencies have had their fare share of issues with the round. Or they will point to the FAMS or USSS using it, but how many people have they shot(that werent their own guys)? There are the stories in gun magazines written by deceptive gun writers that fraught with half truths, inaccuracies. "But its reliable because its bottlenecked" or "big hole small round", advocates will cry, while forgetting 9mm is tapered, and that other service pistol cartridges are quite reliable.