Earliest Smith & Wessons to practically use jacketed bullets

mrcvs

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
3,759
Reaction score
7,600
Twofold question:

Jacketed bullets were invented in 1882.

1. What’s the earliest Smith & Wesson I should safely consider loading with jacketed bullets, taking into account pressures and barrel wear?

2. What Smith & Wesson revolver was the earliest one designed specifically for jacketed bullet usage?
 
Register to hide this ad
No Idea to the exact answers! However the mid 30's development of the Registered Magnum in 357 Rem Mag would have to be a good starting place.

The 4th or 5th change of the M&P had Heat Treated cylinders, another good place to start looking.

Ivan
 
You would need to be a heavy duty shooter to wear out any older barrel. Occasional moderate use of jacketed bullets will not harm them. S&W did begin to use a more wear-resistant steel alloy for barrels during WWII.
 
Last edited:
No Idea to the exact answers! However the mid 30's development of the Registered Magnum in 357 Rem Mag would have to be a good starting place.

The 4th or 5th change of the M&P had Heat Treated cylinders, another good place to start looking.

Ivan

My gut instinct is it all started with the Registered Magnum. If not that, maybe the .38/44 Heavy Duty.
 
I may be wrong but I think the first S&W revolver designed for jacketed bullets was the 1917 .45 ACP revolver

Weren’t at least the earliest .45 ACP rounds loaded commercially with cast bullets?
 
They will work fine, but will wear a bore much quicker than cast bullets. There is no real advantage to using jacketed bullets in any handgun chambering. A cast bullet that fits well and is of the right alloy for the load will often be just as accurate or more accurate than jacketed bullets and it won't lead the bore.
 
Jacketed vs non-jacketed is not the only determining factor in bore wear/erosion. One must also consider operating pressure and the characteristics of the powder. Higher operating pressure generally means faster bore erosion. Heavy charges of slow burning powder generally means faster bore erosion. Very slow, spherical (ball) powders are often the worst offenders when it comes to bore erosion.
 
From what I know, factory .357 Mag ammo was loaded only with 158 grain lead SWC bullets until the 1960s. The early .38-44 ammunition, by any name, was normally loaded by the factories with RN metal capped lead bullets, leaving the area of the bullet in contact with the bore being lead. They resembled FMJ bullets, but were not. It was believed that metal capped bullets penetrated car bodies better than bare lead bullets, and that was probably correct. Until Super Vel came along in the mid-60s, virtually no bullets used for loading revolver-caliber cartridges were jacketed. One exception was FMJ military-issue .38 Special ammunition used during WWII and later. And those bullets used plated steel jackets. That was why S&W changed the barrel steel alloy to one more abrasion resistant for the "Victory" revolvers.

With few exceptions, all CF factory cartridges designed for semiauto pistols used jacketed bullets from the beginning, as it made cartridge feeding from the magazine more reliable.

Regardless, even with an "old" S&W revolver, it would require firing a considerable quantity of jacketed bullets to cause any severe bore wear. Not something I would be greatly concerned about for average revolver owners who might fire several hundred rounds per year, if that.
 
Last edited:
They will work fine, but will wear a bore much quicker than cast bullets. There is no real advantage to using jacketed bullets in any handgun chambering. A cast bullet that fits well and is of the right alloy for the load will often be just as accurate or more accurate than jacketed bullets and it won't lead the bore.


You speak the truth and I like it! I started handloading in the early 1980's and always bought jacketed bullets because I was afraid of leading. I did not know about hardness levels, alloy, velocity - everything that one needs to know. Eventually I learned all those things.

Folks who handload need to learn about all these things.
 
The s&w 1917 revolver.

Happy 113th b-day to the 230gr fmj 45acp cartridge.

The 1911 45apc pistol was put into service in 1911. No large numbers were made or issued. In 1916 Pershing put a force together to fight Paunch Villa arming his force with machine guns bolt action rifles and 1911's. This lasted into 1917 while America entered WWI. There weren't enough 1911's to go around. Nor did the us have the ability to mass produce the 1911 fast enough.

Firearms mfg's already had revolver frames & bbl's in inventory along with the tooling to produce more. The cylinders and 1/2 moon clips were designed and the 1917/45acp was born to supplement the us armed forces dwindling supply of 1911 pistols.

On a side note:
The early 1917 revolvers were known for their generous/oversized cylinders and bbl's. While this is good for mud/crud not affecting function on the battlefield. It wasn't exactly good for the civilian market. Casters would order special molds like this cramer mold that cast a hb bullet.

tVkSHSw.jpg


That mold casts a .452" swc hb bullet. The .452" bullet is good for the 45acp case. but has the ability to expand filling the .454"/.455" cylinder throats and bbl's vastly increasing accuracy.

DuFFJCS.jpg
 
My gut instinct is it all started with the Registered Magnum. If not that, maybe the .38/44 Heavy Duty.
That is exactly what I am thinking .

True the 1917 45 acp ammo was jacketed ...
but the 357 magnum just about demanded a jacketed bullet with the pressure and velocity it developed .

Gary
 
How far back does jacked 357 M factory ammo go? There used to be both jacked 357 and lead. My buddy bought some lead 357s back in the 80s. It leaded the barrel terribly.

S&W branded ammunition in the blue box had a .357 Magnum loading of a 158 grain LSWCHP that leaded the barrel. "Terribly" is the best way of describing it.
 
The 1917 was of course intended to fire jacketed .45ACP bullets. The rifling is very shallow and short of custom sized bullets, accuracy of these guns tends to be far better using jacketed projectiles than "normal" cast. Worth noting that the rifling is so shallow the jacketed bullets do wear the barrel comparatively quickly.
 
The 1917 was of course intended to fire jacketed .45ACP bullets. The rifling is very shallow and short of custom sized bullets, accuracy of these guns tends to be far better using jacketed projectiles than "normal" cast. Worth noting that the rifling is so shallow the jacketed bullets do wear the barrel comparatively quickly.

The shallow rifling has nothing to do with the lack of accuracy with these 1917 revolvers and cast/lead bullets.

A standard 1911/45acp bbl with shallow rifling.
wvwbomH.jpg


3 different cast bullets with the same 4.3gr of clays doing 850fps+ with a 16,00psi+ load.
lZyBjGD.jpg


5-shot groups @ 50ft with those 3 bullets pictured above in that shallow grooved 45acp bbl. All 3 loads have 5 bullets touching, less than 1" groups.
N17hNIE.jpg


The issue with the 1917 revolvers is how the cut the chambers in the cylinders. A cut away of revolver cylinder, where the case ends you can see a "step" cut in the chamber. That "cut" is the leade of the chamber in the cylinder. One bullet is set out further into the leade increasing accuracy.
Lcmp4hk.jpg


At the time they started making the 1917 bbls the tooling was setup for the 45lc/.455" bullets. You never want the leade/throats in a revolver cylinder smaller than the bbl diameter. They ended up cutting the chambers in the cylinders throats that tapered down to .455"
ArzRUGY.jpg


The jacketed ball ammo used had an open exposed lead base. The jacket extends past the lead base creating in effect, a hollow base bullet. The jacketed bullets base will expand filling the oversized throats and bbl's.

What I find interesting with that saami auto-rim spec sheet is that it's asking for a .451" bbl but still uses a .455" throat in the cylinders.

Anyway it's hard to put a .454"/.455" cast/lead bullet in a 45acp case without swaging the bullet down or even getting the round to fit in the chambers from bullet buldge/too fat.
 
The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibited the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body. This included plain lead bullet. The United States finally ratified the second Hague Convention in 1907. After that (supposedly), even Anerican .22 RF cartridge used by the US military used jacketed bullets.

Since the Hague Convention did not apply to Civilians and Law Enforcement Agencies in the U.S. we continued to use lead bullets at will, including semi-jacketed bullet.

I’m not saying jacketed bullets were not used in late 19th and early 20th century ammo, but all the era ammo I have seen have plain lead bullets hardened with some antimony to prevent excessive leading of the barrel.
 
Back
Top