Early M&P Model of 1899 - .38 Special?

[FatChance]

I have an early (s/n 15xx) civilian S&W M&P Hand Ejector Model of 1899. The chambering is not stamped on the gun. It is my understanding that all civilian versions like this were .38 Special and the .38 Long Colt was only available on the Army and Navy versions. Is this true? How can I be certain that my unmarked version is actually a .38 Special? Thanks!

 

[Alk8944]

How can I be certain that my unmarked version is actually a .38 Special?

Simple, drop a .38 Spl. into a charge hole! If it drops free;y to the rim that is what it is chambered for. If not, then it is a .38 L.C.

BTW, very(!) nice 1899.

 

[S&W ucla]

I believe they were also chambered in 32 Winchester (32-20). Best way is to try 38spl case. Neat guns!!

 

[FatChance]

Thanks! .38 Special does chamber just fine.

 

[mikepriwer]

Chambering marking on 1899's is very uneven. Lots of them have no chambering. Others
have 38 Special only, and still others have the dual-chambering rollmark.

Mike Priwer

 

[glowe]

Chambering marking on 1899's is very uneven. Lots of them have no chambering. Others
have 38 Special only, and still others have the dual-chambering rollmark.

Mike - is there any correlation between years produced and barrel stampings on commercial 1899s?? Maybe early guns were not stamped and later ones were? I only have one 1899 and it has the 38 Special stamp and was shipped in 1902.

 

[mikepriwer]

Gary

I've not noticed any correlation, and that surprised me just a bit. I think some, but not
all, of the early ones, have no marking. I also have a fair number of factory 1899
barrels, finished, and they have no markings on them. Statistically, I don't have
enough 1899's to look seriously at the correlation. Maybe 15 to 20, but that is about
all. And, their serial numbers are not distributed evenly.

My sense is that the caliber roll markings have more to do with what segment of
the market they were trying to attract. We have to remember that the 1899 was
a brand spanking new revolver, and they were trying to develop a market for it.
(They had no idea just how popular, and important this new design was to become.)

For example, they named it Military and Police, thinking that that was going to be
the market place. This is probably why adjustable sights were generally a special
order, at first. Throughout the whole 1899 series of ~21000 revolvers, there were
only 2000 sold to the military: 1000 to the Navy and 1000 to the Army. I suspect
the dual chambering roll marking were done for the marketing effort to the military.

I also think that the general sporting arms market may have been confused by both
the Military & Police name, and of the dual caliber marking. They did continue the
dual chambering marking into the Model of 1902 but as far as is known, there was
only one additional 1000 gun contract to the Navy.

Regards, Mike

 

[Skeetr57]

I have a question about the actual chambering of the 1899 guns. From what I have read, the original .38 long Colt cartridge was a heeled bullet, outside lubricated design, so revolvers chambered for that cartridge would have no shoulders in the chamber. I have examined Colt lightning revolvers so chambered. Later, as I have read, the bullet was changed to a smaller diameter, inside lubricated, hollow base design. If all the above is true, a gun chambered in .38 Special will accept and work just fine with either .38 Special or the later .38 Long Colt rounds, but will not chamber an original .38 Long Colt because the bullet diameter is too large to pass the shoulder in the chamber. Has anyone seen a M1899 with straight through charge holes?

 

[DWalt]

The .38 LC cartridge with the heeled bullet and outside lubrication did not last very long in U. S. military service, as it was changed over to the inside lubricated bullet in 1892, having a .354" hollow-base bullet. So that issue wouldn't have existed for the military after all the old pre-1892 ammo was used up. In any event, I believe the Colt .38 Army & Navy revolvers had full diameter (.374") chambers and .363" bores until the Colt 1903 model when the bore diameter was reduced to .357", but I'd have to look that up. It also wouldn't have been an issue for the S&W 1899 (and later) revolvers unless someone had a supply of the old heeled bullet ammo. I don't know just what the chamber length was for those 3000 government-purchased S&Ws, ostensibly for use with .38 LC, or whether .38 Special cartridges can be chambered in them.