Educate me on the Browning Superposed

[sigp220.45]

Local place has a 12 gauge Belgian Browning Superposed. No screw in chokes, 2 3/4 chambers, barrel is marked "chrome" but nothing else about chokes. Pistol grip is flat-bottomed, short tang, single trigger that appears to be non-selective (safety doesn't flip left/right). I put the serial number in my phone but it didn't save. I'm sure it was LPM followed by a 5 digit number. That doesn't match up with the serial numbers I've found online.

I really like it - it fits me perfectly. I've always wanted a Superposed.

It's a consignment gun, marked $1395. I could probably get a hundred off of that.

Thoughts? I'm confused by the serial number, and I think the price might be high for a "flat grip/short tang" later model.

All opinions welcome.

 

[Texas Star]

People usually like them. Only dirt I've seen was that shotgun expert Don Zutz said that the action may gape fractionally or try to when firing.

I imagine that's why Merkel, SKB, and Beretta guns have those breech extensions and bolts to avoid such issues and keep the gun tight longer.

I'd look for an SKB/Ithaca or a Beretta. Merkel is rather pricey, rarer, and maybe harder to get parts and repairs for.

 

[H Richard]

If it's a "Belgian" made Browning superposed the price is very good unless it is excessively worn. Look on the side of the barrel lock up when you open it, and the choke will be listed as a series of * and -'s.
* = Full, *- = IM, ** = M, **- = IC, *** = Cyl.

The last Belgian made Superposed I saw for sale in above average condition, not great but good+ was over $3000.

 

[2152hq]

The serial number prefix doesn't sound at all right for an FN made Browning Superposed.
The Single-Non-Selective trigger was an option on pre WW2 Superposed I believe and perhaps early post WW2 production.
But the flat grip & short (trigger guard) tang sounds like a later production.

Look at the top tang of the action/frame. If the sides of the tang are a straight taper from the action body to the back end,,it's a post 1966/67 production. Before that the Superposed upper tang had a step down in the taper about midway along it's length.
This earlier style is called the Y style inletting (used to quickly ID a an orphan stock). The former, newer style us called the U style inletting.

About '62 they started using a gauge code suffix in the serial number.
'S' was used for 12ga,,followed by the single digit of the year.
XXXXS4 (serial number XXXX 12ga made in 1964).
1969 to '75 they used a 2 digit yr code.
XXXXS71 (Serial number XXXX 12ga made in 1971)
Each year ser# began at 1000. The yr code lets you sort it out.

1976 and on was a more complicated code. All I recall was that 12ga was '213' prefix and 20ga was '233' prefix.

The bbl should have in the least FN/ Liege Belgium markings on it in full sight.
If a Browning Arms North American import, it'll have the Browning/Montreal/St Louis markings on the bbl too.
Remember, Browning Arms never made a single one of these. They were all made by FN. Some were marked for and sold to Browning for the N/A market. The rest FN sold with just their name on them to the rest of the world.

It should have Belgian proofs on the bbl and the action flat edge regardless of wether it was a Browning import or just an FN marked gun.
Usually the proofs can be used to tell the Proof/Mfg yr. or close to it.

I'm discounting that it's a Japanese mfg 'Browning' but the gun could be a Spanish or other copy of the FN design.
Some of those foreign copys are proudly marked 'Browning's Patent' or simply 'Browning'.

Just some thoughts.

 

[sigp220.45]

I think I may have cleared up some of the mystery today.

The SN is actually L13PM08XXX. A little Googling led me to the Browning B27, a 1980ish effort to offer a lower priced Belgian made O/U on the Superposed action.

I had the owner hold it for me, but now I think the price is too high for this model.

The single trigger is selective - I was just doing it wrong.

Chokes are IM and IC.

Still a nice gun, but it has lost a little luster.

 

[H Richard]

Sounds like a nice bird gun.

 

[Camster]

At least you don't have to worry about salt wood with this one.

 

[gregintenn]

At least you don't have to worry about salt wood with this one.

That would be the one thing I would tell you to google and read up on before purchasing a Superposed. They are top shelf shotguns otherwise.

That price isn't out of line for any Browning over/under in good condition in my opinion.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Go in with both eyes open, and digest 2152hq's post very well. Know what you're looking at and research value.

For whatever reason the Superposed guns, even the older ones, have diminished in value in the last few years. That's especially true in 12 gauge. Not sure I understand why, but that's the case. They are a fine gun and these days can be a good value.

Like a lot of Browning guns they do have complicated quirks--on the Superposed the fore end attaches in an odd way. But overall a nice gun and a true classic. If I run across an older 20 ga. with double triggers it'll become part of the hunting rotation.

Just saw your updated post--sounds like you have a handle on it.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a 1965 12 gauge "Lightning" 30" Full/Full and a 1968 20 gauge "Lightning" IC /Modified, both are Grade I with mild engraving and simple French Walnut stocks. They are the only blondes I ever loved. I have 6 Citori actioned Sporting Clays guns and the two Superpose' are far more "Lively" guns. I could be on and break birds with them far earlier than with the Citoris. I just use "spreader" shells rather than open up the chokes. John M. Browning started the design and his son Val finished it, Val later worked with the Japanese firm Moruku (sp) to develop the Citori. Belgian Superpose are still made and are called B-25's; Japanese Superpose are called B-125's. 7 or 8 years ago there was a dealer on the East coast selling a Sporting Clays series of B-25's he had Browning make for his label, it was $10,000 to 14,000 depending on the wood. There were 100 made, they sold out in less than a month! I have seen a few B-27's, They are neither "Fish nor Fowl" and a good thing to stay away from (service is nearly impossible). Ivan

 

[much ado]

Browning O/U

I`m still not sure the model you`re talking about...it could be a Liege. you say you like the gun...I think it`s a bona fide great deal.