Enfield SMLE questions!

[NYlakesider]

Hey guys, came into a nice (numbers not matching, arsenal rebuild) Enfield SMLE .303 Says on receiver #4 Mark 1 (f) It’s a shooter not a museum piece and so far I’m happy with my purchase.

Now I’m familiar with American military ammo in regards to corrosive vs.non corrosive, but know nothing about Britt stuff. I have a couple of questions I believe this group should be able to help me with.

Is surplus ammo still readily available for this old war horse? (If so who has good prices?) I’m not planning on reloading for this gun!

When did the Britt’s/others make the change over to non corrosive ammo for this rifle.

TIA, Dave

 

[ACP230]

Surplus .303 seems to have dried up a couple years ago.
I think the stuff that was sold then also had corrosive priming.
You could check the ammo dealers in Shotgun News and on the Net.
Some .303 might show up.

Don't know when the Brits shifted to non-corrosive primers.

 

[mxbob]

303 Brit ammo is scarce on the surplus market and mostly all corrosive. The ammo made in eastern Europe, is the best bet for shooting ammo at this point. I usually see some at the gun shows for less than $10 a box.
Bob Ray 1815

 

[NYlakesider]

Surplus .303 seems to have dried up a couple years ago.
I think the stuff that was sold then also had corrosive priming.
You could check the ammo dealers in Shotgun News and on the Net.
Some .303 might show up.

Don't know when the Brits shifted to non-corrosive primers.

Thanks ACP. I sort of thought .303 ammo was getting dry, I cannot remember the last time I saw it advertised in Sportsman guide or other companies like that. Of course at that time I did not have a .303 rifle so did not pay close attention.

 

[Stevie]

last surplus ammo I had for my Enfields was South African(good stuff, non corrosive)..and Pakistan made ****(hangfires, extremely corrosive).

Remington/UMC makes some good ball plinking ammo..a bit pricey..and of course hunting softpoint ammo is available. Probably other commercial made ball ammo available..however I find the Rem/UMC is easy to find in my area.

 

[NYlakesider]

303 Brit ammo is scarce on the surplus market and mostly all corrosive. The ammo made in eastern Europe, is the best bet for shooting ammo at this point. I usually see some at the gun shows for less than $10 a box.
Bob Ray 1815

Thanks we have 4 or 5 major gun shows in my general area. One in particular has a dealer that has a HUGE amount of surplus ammo for sale.

O well I know how to clean a gun that has fired corrosive ammo, I was just hoping to find cleaner stuff!

 

[GaryS]

I would work on the assumption that all surplus .303 is corrosive. As others have noted, it's getting pretty scarce and prices are rising. I'd buy surplus if I could find it and just make sure that I did a good job cleaning the rifle afterwards.

 

[NYlakesider]

last surplus ammo I had for my Enfields was South African(good stuff, non corrosive)..and Pakistan made ****(hangfires, extremely corrosive).

Remington/UMC makes some good ball plinking ammo..a bit pricey..and of course hunting softpoint ammo is available. Probably other commercial made ball ammo available..however I find the Rem/UMC is easy to find in my area.

Thanks for the tip on South African ammo. I picked up a box of commerical hunting ammo when I bought the rifle.

 

[Bat Guano]

I believe the Greek .303 was good noncorrosive ammo, but you don't see much .303 ammo for sale these days. Wish I had bought more of it at the time.

Funny how we say that so much these days.

 

[41RF]

The Greek is good ammo; the Privi Partizan from Serbia is also good. The rifle sounds interesting, the (f) after the model might be for Fazackerly, one of the "shadow factories" the Brits set up to disperse production in case of air raids destroying one plant. Does it have "ROF" stamped near the f? ROF=Royal Ordnance Factory Anyway, enjoy your fine rifle!

 

[DGNY]

Have fun with your Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk 1. They are entertaining to shoot with the aperture sight and pretty easy to reload for, should you change your mind. Esp if you have decent brass and neck size only to avoid working the brass a lot.

Best of luck finding a source of affordable surplus ammo. It does pop up at gun shows.

Regards,

Dyson

 

[NYlakesider]

The Greek is good ammo; the Privi Partizan from Serbia is also good. The rifle sounds interesting, the (f) after the model might be for Fazackerly, one of the "shadow factories" the Brits set up to disperse production in case of air raids destroying one plant. Does it have "ROF" stamped near the f? ROF=Royal Ordnance Factory Anyway, enjoy your fine rifle!

Nope no ROF; just the serial number underneath!

A BIG thanks to all that answered my queries about my new (to me) rifle.

 

[cowart]

Not surplus, but all of this is non-corrosive
303 British

 

[Faulkner]

I would work on the assumption that all surplus .303 is corrosive. As others have noted, it's getting pretty scarce and prices are rising. I'd buy surplus if I could find it and just make sure that I did a good job cleaning the rifle afterwards.

^^^ Good reply. Unless I know it's commercial American made ammo, I too just assume .303 British is corrosive. Your gun will last longer with this approach.

 

[2152hq]

Some #4 rifles made by Fazakerley are marked with a plain 'F' for the manufacturers marking.
They also used the ROF(F),, UF,,and FY markings.,,perhaps others I don't recall.
A Royal Ordnance Factory in Lancashire England as the ROF indicates. Closed up in the very early 60's.

The best non-corrosive I've had was the Greek surplus. Headstamp HXP with a 1970's yr date of mfg. It's accurate in milsurp form and boxer primed as well. I've almost converted my entire supply to once fired brass.

The South African surplus was nice clean ammo too. IIRC it was berdan primed.

Brit & Canadian surplus ammo,,I've never seen anything but corrosive. Plus some of the worst as far as accuracy goes.

The Pakistani produced ammo (POF) is corrosive & has a real bad rep for hang fires and duds. POF is Pakistani Ordnance Factory if I remember correctly, though the ammo has received some less than flattering names to go along with the letters.
Long term storage in extreme heat might have something to do with the problems. Every once in a while someone comes along and has a bunch of it that works great. Who knows.

When in doubt, clean it as if it were corrosive ammo and you'll have no problems.

Get some 5rd charger clips and get to practicing for the Mad Minute.
It's been modified for distance since originally used as part of rifle training in Britain before WW1.
But eccentially it was putting as many hits into a 12inch target at 300yrds in 1 minute starting with a full charged rifle. Qualifying was 15 hits at the time I believe.
I think the record was something like 38hits,,done in the early years of WW1.
That's a small target and a long ways away!

Don't forget to pick up a spike bayonet w/sheath for the #4. Still around at more than reasonable prices.

 

[Texas Star]

I think Winchester 180 grain softpoint (I think it's Power Point bullets) has a bullet profile most like that of MK VII ball ammo, so may shoot best to the sights. Remington ammo that I've seen is round - nosed. It may not feed well in some rifles or shoot well to the sights.

Norma .303 is spitzer-shaped, again much like issue ball ammo. It is listed at 2540 FPS, and comes closest to the listed ballistics in tests that I've seen in magazine articles.

Winchester clocked about 2350 FPS in a story by Brian Pearce, I think. That's enough to kill deer- class game well out to where the iron sights should limit the shooter. (About 250 yards for most shooters, firing at live game animals)

I do not use surplus ammo, as there's no way to tell how old it is or how it was stored, especially in Third World nations. The South African stuff was better stored than most prior to the political changes there in the mid 1990's, and has a good rep, if you can find any.

If your rifle does not have matching numbers, have a QUALIFIED gunsmih check the headspace. That can be adjusted via several sizes of screw-off bolt heads.

If your wartime rifle has the simple two-leaf rear sight, one arm is set for 300 yards; the other for 600 yards. I think the shorter distance, at least, may be set with the bayonet fixed, as it was theoretical practice to fix bayonets if the enemy was within 300 yards. However, see where it hits from the bench with the ammo that YOU have and with YOUR eyes.

Someday after I start selling books well, I plan to order a Lee-Enfield sporter like those from classic days, built on a No. I MK III action. I'll probably fire Winchester 180 grain ammo, mainly. But I'll keep my 1952-made Fazerkerly No. 4 MK II in miitary mode. It's a functional piece of history that may have seen service in Korea or in the Mau-Mau emergency or in the Malayan terrorist days.

 

[wheelgun28]

Nice gun!!

Last week I picked up a No4 Mk1* Made by Savage has the US Property mark on it. Its a typical old mixmaster parts wise. It does have a Mk2 rear sight.

I was going to try it out today but I never made it.

For ammo I picked up some Parvi localy, I think $15.99 a box.

Let us know how she shoots.

Heres a question for the experts, I was told these guns are not considered SMLEs, is the correct or not?

 

[GaryS]

I don't know why they wouldn't be considered SMLEs. I have a Savage made No. 4 Mk 1 and except for the way that the bolt head comes out of the receiver, it's the same as my No. 4 Mk 1 that was made in Britain. It's not much different than my No. 4 Mk 2, except that the trigger group is a bit different.

My Savage is all matching, non refurbished, and has a lot of battle wear on it. It's a safe queen, but I'm happy with that I have four others I can shoot.

Nice gun!!

Last week I picked up a No4 Mk1* Made by Savage has the US Property mark on it. Its a typical old mixmaster parts wise. It does have a Mk2 rear sight.

I was going to try it out today but I never made it.

For ammo I picked up some Parvi localy, I think $15.99 a box.

Let us know how she shoots.

Heres a question for the experts, I was told these guns are not considered SMLEs, is the correct or not?

 

[2152hq]

No expert,,but I don't believe the #4 was ever marked as such,,SMLE.

When it was in the beginning of it's development in the early 1930's, it was simply given the designation of #4 Rifle (MkI).


SMLE's produced in WW1 are simply MkIII or MkIII* SMLE rifles.
The 'No.1' designation came after the war.
The MkIII SMLE was designated the Rifle No1 (MkIII or III*), the 22rf conversions the Rifle No2 (mkIV) and the Pattern 14 was labled the Rifle No3. All this in the mid 20's.

The next in line in development was the #4.
The SMLE,,(Short,,Magazine Lee Enfield) was dropped from the official name
AFAIK, but it continued to hang on as the bolt action 303 rifle in the hands of a Brit & Commonwealth soldier had always been simply an SMLE since the early 1900's.

The Rifle No5,,the so called Jungle Carbine is actually listed as a 'Rifle #4, lightened'.
The slang term of J/Carbine fits better and has always been the name associated with it.

That's how I understand it all,,but I could be wrong. Others will chime in, there's a lot of Enfield interest on the forum.

My interest was with the Mk1* and other early SMLE (No1) rifles.
But I personally consider them all SMLE's,,like that makes a difference..!