Engraved 1st Model DA 44

[wint22]

Hi everyone,

I recently picked up this engraved 1st model 44 Russian DA. I would like to know if the engraving is factory (doubtful), or done by a retailer like Hartley & Graham (most likely, it seems to match other examples), or something done by the owner after purchasing (also possible).




The engraving appears to be intact on the frame, but I suspect someone repolished the barrel because the engravings are a lot more shallow, and the barrel address was partially polished as well making it hard to read.



The pearl grips are real pearl and not artifical, and appear period (there is aging and yellowing around the bottom).

It's definitely in 44 russian (cylinder length 1 7/16), chambers 44 russian fine, and does not chamber 44-40 at all.

The butt of the gun has a 4-digit serial, and the cylinder has the matching number. I can't see any serial marking on the barrel, is there a specific location they are supposed to be stamped?

Does anyone knowwho could have done the engraving? Here's a couple other examples that look similar style (dot engravings with pearl grips) that was done by Hartley and Graham, and there are many examples of Colt's being done similarly by Hartley and Graham. Note that in the accompanying letters, they were both shipped as normal blue/nickeled guns, and refinished and fitted with pearl grips in New York by Hartley and Graham.

Is it worth lettering this gun? Would finding out if the gun was shipped to Hartley & Graham add any value? Or would it be useless, since it was probably a different configuration when shipped out from the S&W factory.

 

[wint22]

Also, does anyone know the timeline for factory letters of a gun from this era?



I'm moving in a few months and wouldn't want to spend $100 on a letter that gets lost in the mail

 

[BMur]

Engraving

Welcome to the forum,
Very interesting large frame DA 44.
I copied and enlarged your photos.
You can see the engraving is very heavily worn. In fact it's too worn to evaluate.
Can you post a good photo of the barrel address so we can be certain that it's an authentic Smith & Wesson?
I've seen European copies that are identical to originals except for the barrel address.
Also can you post the exact barrel length measured from the face of the cylinder to the tip of the barrel?


Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

I would bet on distributor (Shyler Hartly) contracted engraving, not factory. If there is an SH in a diamond stamped on the butt that may help to indicate where the engraving originated.

 

[rct269]

As a complete aside, the value of a letter is ENTIRELY unknown until such time as you have the letter in hand!

As for me, I lettered every single gun in my collection as a matter of course. I regard the letter as "frosting on the cake".

Were most of them "plain vanilla"------the gun was shipped on such and such date to such and such distributor? Absolutely----that was, likely still is S&W's method of distribution. My collection (targets from the beginning to the end of the 5 screws) was maybe 60% pre-war, and a significant percentage of those were shipped to individuals. One individual in particular caused me to let out a shriek, which brought the Boss Lady in. "Crappy letter?, she asked. "Not hardly, my dear--not hardly!" The gun was shipped to Philip B. Sharpe---as a gift---he who S&W credits with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge. You reckon they might have given him more than one gun? More than likely---sure enough more than likely.

The gun in question cost me $3700. It sold during the liquidation of my collection for several multiples thereof. You reckon I should have lettered that gun? Well, I don't know---probably not---it was a somewhat limited production item, but couldn't be called scarce or rare.

NOBODY knows what gun should be lettered until------------------!!!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[wint22]

Welcome to the forum,
Very interesting large frame DA 44.
I copied and enlarged your photos.
You can see the engraving is very heavily worn. In fact it's too worn to evaluate.
Can you post a good photo of the barrel address so we can be certain that it's an authentic Smith & Wesson?
I've seen European copies that are identical to originals except for the barrel address.
Also can you post the exact barrel length measured from the face of the cylinder to the tip of the barrel?

Barrel length is 6" exact
The barrel address is worn and polished down so I can't get a good picture of the words, but you can still see the plus sign shape at start of barrel marking, followed by faded words.


Regarding european copies, I am well aware of the Spanish 1884 copies and others used in WW1, as well as the Belgian copies in 44-40. That said, the european designs have a different lockwork and I have never seen ANY european copy with this cylinder design, with the radial cutouts around the cylinder, that only appear on the S&W 44 DA 1st Model's and the 32/38 DA 1st and 2nd models. If you can show me one example my mind will be changed, but I have not found any yet.


If you look at the Spanish 1884 revolvers, you will see a cylinder that more closely resembles modern S&W revolvers.

 

[iby]

letters

As a complete aside, the value of a letter is ENTIRELY unknown until such time as you have the letter in hand!

As for me, I lettered every single gun in my collection as a matter of course. I regard the letter as "frosting on the cake".

Were most of them "plain vanilla"------the gun was shipped on such and such date to such and such distributor? Absolutely----that was, likely still is S&W's method of distribution. My collection (targets from the beginning to the end of the 5 screws) was maybe 60% pre-war, and a significant percentage of those were shipped to individuals. One individual in particular caused me to let out a shriek, which brought the Boss Lady in. "Crappy letter?, she asked. "Not hardly, my dear--not hardly!" The gun was shipped to Philip B. Sharpe---as a gift---he who S&W credits with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge. You reckon they might have given him more than one gun? More than likely---sure enough more than likely.

The gun in question cost me $3700. It sold during the liquidation of my collection for several multiples thereof. You reckon I should have lettered that gun? Well, I don't know---probably not---it was a somewhat limited production item, but couldn't be called scarce or rare.

NOBODY knows what gun should be lettered until------------------!!!!

Ralph Tremaine

Re: letters
If a gun is not worth a $100 letter it is not worth buying IMO