Exactly what is a Hi Power????

rwsmith

rwsmith

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In my reading I gathered that a Hi Power is not a true 1911 design, but was designed by John Browning as a work around for the patents for the 1911 that he had already sold to Colt. In addition, the design was finished by another after John Browning passed.

I understand there are some differences in the controls and how the safety interacts with them. And that the triggers are heavier on the Hi Power, but some polishing can negate that,

So, the question is. If I have a Hi Power can I say that I have a 1911? It sounds to me like 'no'. To me 1911s are the same all over. Some may have some slight variations according to manufacturer's preferences but if you take two apart and lay them side by side, they are going to be the same.

I know Hi Powers are well made, quality guns that many people like, but can they be called 1911s? Or are they two different guns?
 
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Two different designs. There is a feed ramp and no link on the barrel. The bushing stays in the slide unless it is damaged and needs replacement. Both are single action and the controls are in the same places. The Hi-Power magazine is double stack. The trigger on the HP pivots on a pin and the connection to the sear goes up and beside the mag well. The 1911 trigger moves straight back around the magazine to connect to the sear. You can use a 1911 holster for a HP but not the other way. Both barrels tilt down to unlock as the slide moves back.
 
They are not 1911's. They have some concepts in common as do most modern pistols but they are a different pistol entirely.

Go here for lots of great articles about the Browning Hi-Power thanks to the late great Stephen Camp.

Hi Powers and Handguns

And here is some eye candy for you, a matched set of Browning Hi-Power pistols with Novak's Spec Ops package.

DSC_9760.jpg
 
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two different pistols designed by the same genius !.
no a high power is not a 1911!

both are superb pistols, the high power was designed to meet the needs of the European search for a pistol that would have a higher magazine capacity, and as already mentioned MR. Browning had to work around the colt patents of the 1911, he designed

both weapon systems have proven their worth and durability over numerous decades and either would be a great platform depending on your needs

so to put it in my layman terms, the 1911 is John Browning's tough as nails son, the high power is his just as elegant and tough daughter, she just packs a smaller impact when she slaps a bad guy,

thought from an old gun nut
 
The two pistols are nearly as different as two totally different semi-automatic pistols designs could POSSIBLY be! If you are even a little bit familiar with how the trigger interacts with the sear in the 1911 and how the trigger interacts with the sear in a Hi-Power, you would know that these two gun designs are as different from each other as night and day.
 
rwsmith said:
In my reading I gathered that a Hi Power is not a true 1911 design, but was designed by John Browning as a work around for the patents for the 1911 that he had already sold to Colt. In addition, the design was finished by another after John Browning passed.

I understand there are some differences in the controls and how the safety interacts with them. And that the triggers are heavier on the Hi Power, but some polishing can negate that,

So, the question is. If I have a Hi Power can I say that I have a 1911? It sounds to me like 'no'. To me 1911s are the same all over. Some may have some slight variations according to manufacturer's preferences but if you take two apart and lay them side by side, they are going to be the same.

I know Hi Powers are well made, quality guns that many people like, but can they be called 1911s? Or are they two different guns?
Click to expand...

Short answer. No.

Things in common.

Slide operated semi auto (JMB started that in 1898).

Two lugs in the barrel lock it to the slide (JMB invented that concept long before the 1911 came to be).

Detachable box magazine (if not early, at least the 1893 Borchardt pistol already had that).

The rear end of the barrel tilts down to unlock it from the slide (that is indeed 1911ish, but it's also used in the Glock and in the majority of the locked breech slide opereated semi autos, and that doesn't make 1911s out of them).

A certain family resemblance (but the 1911 already had gotten that look from previous JMB designs, and many more posterior designs not 1911 related also share it).


And that is why I have a 1911(more than one actually:p) and a Hi Power.:D
 
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Wrap your mitts around a vintage BHP is all you have to do. It will put a smile on your face like you've never had in your life. Not only a beautiful piece of machinery but quite possibly the best fitting handgun you may ever handle. Dependable, easy to maintain, accurate and a joy to shoot.

Only my opinion on my 1968 T series
 
They're not that different. Both are based on Browning's, patents (then expired) and most importantly Browning's short recoil tiling barrel principle. But they are different
 
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"Hi Power" is a marketing moniker used by Browning Company in marketing the FN (Fabrique National) Model 1935 pistol. In French (the language of Belgium) the pistol is also known as the Gran Poussaint (spelling errors are mine). Browning retained marketing rights for North America (JMB had learned the hard way about marketing and manufacturing rights for his patents and designs).

There was a very capable Belgian (or possibly French) engineer closely involved with JMB (can't remember the man's name offhand), and much of the final development was done under his direction.

Interesting side light, as Nazi Germany rolled across France and Belgium there was considerable concern about the FN company and its engineering and design staff. A British commando team was tasked with removing those folks from Belgium ahead of Nazi forces, and they were relocated to Canada where they continued working throughout WW2 in support of Allied needs for weapons.

Meanwhile, FN was seized by Nazi forces and remaining skilled workers were forced to continue production of Browning-designed weapons, including the P-35 Hi Power pistols, for use by German forces. There are many Hi Power pistols retaining German proof markings and Nazi stampings. Some sources report that any such pieces should be carefully examined before any use because of reported sabotage by captured FN workers.

In addition to production for the North American market (via Browning USA) FN produced pistols for at least 20 other nations on military contracts, and licenses were issued to others for production of "clones" in several countries. There are also several close copies made without FN licensing, primarily in Soviet-era communist bloc nations.

Lots of history there, and JMB is just one part of it at the beginning.
 
Here's a little fuel for the fire.

Since JMB designed the 1911 two decades before the 1935, and incorporated some but not all of the innovations of the 1911 into the 1935, would that make the 1935 the more evolved and refined design? :D
 
The first time I took down a Hi-Power, then reassembled it, I couldn't help but think that John Moses Browning finally got it all right. This, after my experience as an MP carrying a GI issue Model 1911 with too many loose parts to ever sneak up upon the enemy.
 
The Hi power was just Brownings attempt to make the perfect
auto loading pistol. If he hadn't died it may have been made in
45acp. The fact that it came out in 9mm was to fit the market.
The US was into 45acp but most of Europe was leaning 9mm.
I've had many more 1911s than HPs and on military models the
triggers on HPs are as good as 1911s. The commercial HPs that
were made by FN Belgian seem to me had a better trigger than
commercial 1911s. When you get into Gold Cups and such the
trigger might be better than a HP. But that is apples and oranges
because there are HP Target models in same class,
 
LoboGunLeather said:
In French (the language of Belgium) the pistol is also known as the Gran Poussaint (spelling errors are mine).

There was a very capable Belgian (or possibly French) engineer closely involved with JMB (can't remember the man's name offhand), and much of the final development was done under his direction.
Click to expand...

Grande Puissance - "big (or large/high) power".

Dieudonne Saive, from Belgium, at one time FN's chief weapons designer.
 
After WWI, France hired Fabrique Nationale to design a new military pistol. John Browning was working for FN and was given the task. After several design submittals, FN was granted patents for a prototype in 1927. Browning died shortly after, and the project was carried to completion by Dieudonne J. Saive, another FN employee, The P35 as we know it was accepted ( in 1935) by the Belgian military. Ironically, the French never ordered the pistol. The designs (1911 vs P35) are very different, but have design characteristics common to both Browning and Saive.
 
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