Extractor Problem

[psjr56]

This my first Post here so if I do something wrong please let me know. I have a M&P 40 Pro I bought in December of 2012 and have probably only shot about 300-400 rounds through it. I shot it yesterday and the Extractor doesn't spring back enough and the next round keeps the slide from closing all the way keeping it from going into battery. I can't even close it if I push on the slide. I also pushed on the extractor and it doesn't seem to move much at all. I also pushed the roll pin out thinking maybe there was a lot of build up under it but it was clear. Do the M&P Pro's have extractor problems? Shot my FNX-40 with the same exact ammo and it worked flawlessly in that gun.

 

[Mountain Walker]

could there be dirt under the extractor?

 

[psjr56]

could there be dirt under the extractor?

No I took it apart and it was really clean underneath it. I also cleaned it and very little carbon film was on it. Going to the range today and will rent a M&P 40 if they have one to compare it to mine. Will S&W fix it after owning it for this long?

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

extractor problem

There are two things an extractor must do is hold the cartridge and slip over the cartridge. Take the slide off and insert a cartridge under the extractor. Shake the slide and the cartridge should hold. Also, as I mentioned, see if the extractor snaps over the round. The extractor must be able to do these two functions and if not, then the extractor must be corrected. Smith & Wesson should be able to repair that fix but the wait time for the fix is lengthy. Try those functions I listed and see if you have an extractor problem.

Nick

 

[Fastbolt]

What you're assuming to be an "extractor problem" could just as easily have been an ammunition problem, even if using factory ammunition (and especially a budget line). Add in some tighter or looser tolerances when it comes to barrels, especially between different makes, and things can get interesting now and again.

M&P extractors are essentially a drop-in part. They used to have people attending the M&P pistol armorer class buy an extractor bar gage for the .40 models (since it was the first and most popular model created for LE use, and the model provided for student use in the classes). Not so much in subsequent recerts, with the explanation given that the tight tolerances of the slides and the MIM extractor (which has been revised at least once) has made it a simple replacement repair, if ever needed.

I used to call and frequently inquire about the development of an extractor bar gage for the 9 & .45 slides, just to have them for my armorer kit, but they kept telling me they had no plans to make them, as they didn't consider them a necessary tool for armorers working on the M&P pistols (as they do for the 3rd gen guns and the SW1911's).

Ditto not needing a force dial gauge to check extractor spring tension. Easier than working on 3rd gen & SW1911's.

Switching over to using a roll pin instead of the original solid extractor pins (except in the .45's which used roll pins from the start) was a really nice revision, too, as those solid pins could give new meaning to the word "solid" when trying to remove one. I replaced the solid pin in my second M&P (a 40c from early 2010) with a new roll pin, after my last recert, just to do it. It was a royal pain, being harder than any stubborn extractor pin in any 3rd gen gun I've ever supported as an armorer.

So, outside of the trivia I just posted, what ammunition were you using when the round wouldn't fully chamber? Did you inspect it, checking for normal tolerances?

At different times in the last few to several years, at our agency range we saw a couple instances involving of a couple different major ammo companies where some ammo had cases trimmed just overly long enough to stop chambering. In another instance, some case rims were just far enough outside the "generous" end of the normal tolerance range to create occasional chambering problems. Imagine what might sometimes slip out the door of the ammo companies in recent years, with the high demand being placed upon ammo companies.

 

[psjr56]

Still no good

I went to the indoor range today and rented a M&P 40 like the one I have. Theirs shot flawlessly like mine used to, mine wouldn't feed, the Extractor would catch the casing while it was trying to load. I had to drop the mag and eject the unspent cartridge. The other day after racking the first round the Extractor would keep the slide from going all the way back. Went home after going to the indoor range and got three different brands, all did the same thing, not feeding. I put several drops of gun oil around the Extractor and it fed the ammo but it ejected erratically, some hitting me in the head. My other 40 cal ran the ammo I originally had trouble with no problem at all. If it will cost me a FFL and shipping charge to send my gun back to S&W I'll try a after market Extractor first. Why it started doing this all of the sudden is beyond be. Gun sat in a lock box with a round loaded and a magazine in it for several months. It's been a while since I shot it. I'm glad I'm not a cop who's life depends on these guns.

 

[psjr56]

What you're assuming to be an "extractor problem" could just as easily have been an ammunition problem, even if using factory ammunition (and especially a budget line). Add in some tighter or looser tolerances when it comes to barrels, especially between different makes, and things can get interesting now and again.

M&P extractors are essentially a drop-in part. They used to have people attending the M&P pistol armorer class buy an extractor bar gage for the .40 models (since it was the first and most popular model created for LE use, and the model provided for student use in the classes). Not so much in subsequent recerts, with the explanation given that the tight tolerances of the slides and the MIM extractor (which has been revised at least once) has made it a simple replacement repair, if ever needed.

I used to call and frequently inquire about the development of an extractor bar gage for the 9 & .45 slides, just to have them for my armorer kit, but they kept telling me they had no plans to make them, as they didn't consider them a necessary tool for armorers working on the M&P pistols (as they do for the 3rd gen guns and the SW1911's).

Ditto not needing a force dial gauge to check extractor spring tension. Easier than working on 3rd gen & SW1911's.

Switching over to using a roll pin instead of the original solid extractor pins (except in the .45's which used roll pins from the start) was a really nice revisions, too, as those solid pins could give new meaning to the word "solid" when trying to remove one. I replaced the solid pin in my second M&P (a 40c from early 2010) with a new roll pin, after my last recert, just to do it. It was a royal pain, being harder than any stubborn extractor pin in any 3rd gen gun I've ever supported as an armorer.

So, outside of the trivia I just posted, what ammunition were you using when the round wouldn't fully chamber? Did you inspect it, checking for normal tolerances?

At different times in the last few to several years, at our agency range we saw a couple instances involving of a couple different major ammo companies where some ammo had cases trimmed just overly long enough to stop chambering. In another instance, some case rims were just far enough outside the "generous" end of the normal tolerance range to create occasional chambering problems. Imagine what might sometimes slip out the door of the ammo companies in recent years, with the high demand being placed upon ammo companies.

The original problem I had was after racking the first round when it cycled the extractor wouldn't go around the casing keeping the slide from closing all the way. None of it was cheap ammo. Thanks for your reply.

 

[psjr56]

There are two things an extractor must do is hold the cartridge and slip over the cartridge. Take the slide off and insert a cartridge under the extractor. Shake the slide and the cartridge should hold. Also, as I mentioned, see if the extractor snaps over the round. The extractor must be able to do these two functions and if not, then the extractor must be corrected. Smith & Wesson should be able to repair that fix but the wait time for the fix is lengthy. Try those functions I listed and see if you have an extractor problem.

Nick

Definitely a Extractor problem but very bizarre that it shows up after just sitting for a long time. Does S&W pay the FFL & shipping? Thanks for the reply.

 

[S&W Rover]

S&W will pay the cost to ship the gun back to the mother ship -- you call them, and they email you a label.

But, if you are up for experimentation, you could buy a replacement extractor and install it. Speed Shooter Specialties carries an extractor for $3 (M&P Extractor [1776] - $3.00 : Welcome to Speed Shooter Specialties)

 

[psjr56]

S&W will pay the cost to ship the gun back to the mother ship -- you call them, and they email you a label.

But, if you are up for experimentation, you could buy a replacement extractor and install it. Speed Shooter Specialties carries an extractor for $3 (M&P Extractor [1776] - $3.00 : Welcome to Speed Shooter Specialties)

Thanks for the information. I will try a new extractor first. If it's just a extractor I don't want to bother S&W, I'm sure they get plenty of returns with the millions of guns they sell.

 

[Bkreutz]

Definitely a Extractor problem but very bizarre that it shows up after just sitting for a long time. Does S&W pay the FFL & shipping? Thanks for the reply.

could be corrosion, stainless is rust resistant, not rust proof. Have you taken the extractor out and cleaned the spring and spring pocket?

 

[psjr56]

could be corrosion, stainless is rust resistant, not rust proof. Have you taken the extractor out and cleaned the spring and spring pocket?

I removed the extractor and cleaned it up. Spring pocket is very shallow and didn't look like there was anything in there. I'll pull it apart again when I get the new extractor I ordered tonight. It's a factory replacement, I didn't the $45 Apex extractor. I'll post the out come after I install the new one.

 

[DocGlock]

There are two things an extractor must do is hold the cartridge and slip over the cartridge. Take the slide off and insert a cartridge under the extractor. Shake the slide and the cartridge should hold. Also, as I mentioned, see if the extractor snaps over the round. The extractor must be able to do these two functions and if not, then the extractor must be corrected. Smith & Wesson should be able to repair that fix but the wait time for the fix is lengthy. Try those functions I listed and see if you have an extractor problem.

Nick

The extractor should not be slipping or snapping over the round. The round slides up under the extractor upon feeding from the magazine. If you drop a round in the chamber to load a single, then drop the slide, it will snap over it, but sooner or later that process will damage the extractor. To the OP, is this possibly what you have been doing?

 

[Fastbolt]

If it were mine, and I wasn't an armorer, I'd call and arrange for S&W to have the M&P returned for inspection and correction. Even as an armorer, if a new extractor didn't correct the problem I'd let them pay to have gun returned under warranty.

FWIW, in my last M&P armorer recert class I picked up a couple of the newer extractors on which the letter "L" was lightly inscribed (for identification compared to other, earlier extractors, I was told). I was told it identified the revision of the extractor with the longer hook (and which has also been described as having a bit more negative rake).

Then, when I called to order a couple more spare extractors in case one of our few hundred new duty M&P's (in 3 calibers) may require a repair extractor, I was asked for a serial number of a gun, or range of guns. I was told that the new system tracks the serial numbers of the guns when parts are requested, and will let them better identify whether a specific revised part might be needed (and obviously let them track any potential issues that may surface with guns made on specific equipment, at specific times, like on the slide & barrel production machines). Those new extractors had a new part number that also included a name as part of the part description (but didn't have any special markings like the ones the instructor had on hand for the class).

Bottom line? I'd let the factory examine the gun to make sure you didn't need a warranty replacement for a slide or barrel that was slightly out-of-spec. Send back the magazines for them to check, too.

 

[psjr56]

Going to try the new Extractor when it comes and if this doesn't help then I'll try and send it back. I bought it in December of 2012 so I don't know if they will fix it for free or not. Thanks for all of the replies so far.

 

[psjr56]

Something else I didn't think of until reading the replies here is that the round pops up into the extractor hook then it is pushed into the barrel. I thought the round was pushed into the barrel then the extractor snapped around it when the slide closed. Is this right? Never thought of how the round went into the barrel. It happens so fast my wife didn't even know the slide moved after every shot.

 

[CALREB]

We have been experiencing some of those same problems ,but only with WW 180 gr white box. Not with other WW 9 or 40 ammo. info only, the newer extractor are probably the easiest fix, the extractors are a pretty hard material to bevel ,like a 1911 ext. But that pin is hard. Best bet is to send it back, unless you determine its an ammo problem, bob

 

[Bkreutz]

Something else I didn't think of until reading the replies here is that the round pops up into the extractor hook then it is pushed into the barrel. I thought the round was pushed into the barrel then the extractor snapped around it when the slide closed. Is this right? Never thought of how the round went into the barrel. It happens so fast my wife didn't even know the slide moved after every shot.

The proper function is for the round slides up and engages the extractor hook and then goes into the barrel. That's why it's not a good practice to load a round in the barrel and then let the slide slam shut. Good way to break an extractor.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

extractor problem

Again, the prime function of an extractor is to hold the cartridge in place and the the extractor must snap over the rim of the cartridge. Check the design and function and ask any professional master gunsmith what is the prime purpose of an extractor and they will give the same answer. Place the cartridge under the extractor, with the slide off, and the extractor should hold the cartridge in place as you shake the slide up and down. As the cartridge slides into place, it snaps over the cartridge. If the extractor does not follow this principle, you must adjust the extractor accordingly. Most of the time, if you purchase a new extractor, they will have to be fitted or adjusted. The majority of parts are not the drop in remedy as most people think. The armorer schools are not professional gunsmith schools. The departmental armorers are to maintain the weapons as needed but are not gunsmiths. I was a certified Smith & Wesson Armorer in pistol and revolvers as well as a certified Remington Shotgun Armorer for the department and a certified Glock Armorer. The Remington armorer school was three days, Glock armorer school was only one day and Smith & Wesson Armorer school was a week for revolvers and a week for pistols. Surely, you are not a gunsmith since the gunsmith schools for the professional and master level will take up to two years or better. So, if the extractor is the root of the problem, fix it if you can or take it to a qualified professional gunsmith. I have taken the Practical Gunsmith Course from AGI and was certified to the extent of additional knowledge than the armorer's courses. I am a certified Law Enforcement Armorer in 15 firearms including the MP5 sub machine gun. I still continue my studies and learn the design, function and repair of my military, tip up, top break smiths and hand ejectors by applying knowledge to making parts that are non existent for replacement. If you know the design and function, you can root out the problem.

Nick

 

[Fastbolt]

Of course LE armorer training isn't intended to make an armorer a gunsmith. That's typically really emphasized in classes given by the assorted manufacturers. While an occasional agency armorer might also indeed be a licensed gunsmith, the greater majority of armorers I've ever met were simply agency armorers, with simple armorer training to help them identify simple problems and make simple repairs "in the field" (outside the factory). You undoubtedly remember that from your armorer days and classes.

I'm lesser trained and experienced, only having attended 20-odd (23? 24? 25?) armorer classes and recerts for a variety of firearms often used in LE, but no formal in-person classes at Lassen Community College (thought about it), nor any AGI self-paced, at-home gunsmithing education & training (thought about it, too).

One of the advantages of being an armorer, though, is sometimes having the ability to discuss a particular suspected problem with a factory smith, or even an engineer (done that myself a handful of times), who probably has some degree of specific experience and insight in what might be happening with their particular gun. The factories also have a vested interest in helping armorers not only correctly identify and resolve issues, but to help educate them when it's best to have the suspected problem(s) forwarded to the factory.