Factory ammo has me wondering... Something doesn't seem right.

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Dikinalaska

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So a friend of ours asked us to hold on to her pistol to keep it safe while they're moving. Well, I was moving some stuff around and got to looking at it and the ammo. The ammo is the Lawman 124gr TMJ. Well when I pulled the ammo out of the box I noticed something was off. So I looked at every round and found that 46 of the shells say "F C 9mm+P" and 4 of them say "SPEER 9mm Luger +P"

So two questions-
First-Would this be normal to have different shells from the factory? Just using whatever they have?

And second-the box itself doesn't say +p anywhere, so could I assume that the +p annotation on the shells mean that they are, in fact +p rounds or is it another case of using what they have?

Of course the box has a disclaimer that reads "Note: Cartridges with +P on the headstamp are loaded to higher pressures for greater velocity. Use +P cartridges only in those firearms recommended by the firearm manufacturer." I can see how this would seem to answer my questions, but this is just a standard disclaimer, and the description of the rounds doesn't indicate +p, and our LGS doesn't allow you to open ammo boxes before purchasing so how is someone supposed to know? I don't have any experience with the Speer/Lawmans so any help would be appreciated. I guess I can contact CCI/Speer and ask them too


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According to Federal's LE website, P/N 53651 is a 124 gr. TMJ standard pressure load. Based on that, I'd hazard a guess that the "mystery" cartridges in the box are reloads. :)
 
Every one of them says +p. 46 of them are the "FB" stamped ones, and there's only 4 of the Speer's. So are you guessing that they're all reloads or just the 4 speers?


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Could have been factory loaded during the great ammunition famine that began after Sandy Hook. I recently cracked open a box of Winchester 115gr that was loaded in NATO WW13 brass. I suspect at some point or another, the factories used whatever they had just to keep the lines going.
 
I was guessing all of them, but what MichiganScott said is totally possible too.
 
We use that ammo for training, and carry the Speer 124gr GDHP. During quals, we tell the men to put loose rounds in their pockets so they can re-stack on the line. Sometimes guys use an empty box to hold the loose rounds in their pockets. They grab an empty box/tray and end up with a mixed box of TMJ and GDHP. Just one possible explanation.
 
Oh I forgot to mention that this was a brand new box. I thought they just might have gotten mixed, but when I asked her, she said that's the only box she'd ever purchased, and that she hadn't even opened it. Her pistol is still unfired.


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You know, I thought I looked at every one of them, but didn't even notice that one that that isn't a +p.

So pharmer are you saying somebody at the factory or on our consumer end consolidated? Sorry to be so redundant on my questions, I just want to be comfortable giving them back to her knowing they're safe. I need to get around to contacting them


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Well, the FC stands for Federal Cartridge. There has been a lot of consolidation going on in the ammo industry, but as far as I know, Federal and Speer are still separate manufacturers. This would lead me to believe that box contains commercial reloads, despite the "Lawman" title. If anyone knows better, please correct me.

Larry
 
CoMF said:
I was guessing all of them, but what MichiganScott said is totally possible too.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Speer using Federal cases?

I'm not sure that I understand the basis for believing that there is any mystery at all. AFTER retail sale, someone consolidated some
ammo he had in a box he had. Even the reloads theory is weak, barring obvious physical evidence. Almost all one brand, and four or
five odd ones? Unless you saw some seal, which I don't recall being on the boxes of that particular brand, I don't think that you have
a brand-new box of ammo, no matter what the owner told you.

Unless you think that the owner was cheated by a retailer, or has some unsafe ammo, why are you concerned at all? I thought she just
asked you to keep them while they are moving.

If not a case of end-user consolidation of ammo, CoMF's first answer, "Reloads," stands a very good chance of being the correct answer.
 
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I'm thinking maybe send the lady back in to that store by herself after she's moved for another box of ammo. Lets see what they send her out with.
 
If she left it with you for safekeeping what are you doing digging around in it? I'd be pissed if I were her. But then I don't leave my stuff with anyone else...
 
Shoot... I hadn't considered the possibility of a consolidated box. Makes sense.

Still, a +P FMJ round is unheard of, (Edit) except perhaps for that flat-nosed FMJ round once used by the NYPD. I didn't find a +P TMJ loading anywhere on ATK's LE website.
 
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I use whatever box I have that fits for loose rounds, and you could find most anything (except JHP) in a box. I had taken some ammo to a LGS to trade (they resell). We had that discussion. Seems they get a lot of boxes that way from trades.
Also picked up a box of JHP .45 / 50 at Cabelas. I check the boxes, it wasn't sealed. Opened it - FMJ. Someone had swapped out the content to pay FMJ price for JHP.
I am not surprised by anything these days.
And I as well would be upset with you digging through my stuff.
 
I was looking at the ammo out of curiosity, I had not dealt with this particular ammo before. We're keeping for safe keeping for her while she moved. She doesn't have a safe yet and I do. She said we could go shoot the pistol if we wanted so looking at the ammo didn't seem out of the question. The only reason we didn't go shoot it is because she hasn't yet. Wanted to let her to be the first to shoot her own gun. Unless she's lying to me, she bought the box from Sportsman's at the same time as the pistol. I see no reason for her to lie about it. I was just making sure they were safe for her to shoot. I talked to her about my thoughts and that I was asking you guys and she thanked me. She's like a sister to us. I don't just go rifling through things without permission.


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I don't remember ever buying a box of ammo that has a seal other than my Federal Hydrashock and HSM(?) .40 range rounds. We have a lot of boxes that don't have seals.


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I don't know why anyone would think that she was lying to you, and I don't see
where anyone even brought that up as a possibility. It would be interesting to
find out whether it was sold to her as new factory ammo. It certainly did not
leave the factory in that box. Have you looked at the cases and bullets to get a
hint as to whether it is factory ammo or reloaded ammo?
 
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