Fake factory grips???

[thomashoward]

If someone adds S&W medallions to a set of grips (any maker) not S&W manufacture,do you consider these fake or impostors?I have seen this on both S&W and Ruger. One installation was so bad it was clearly a kitchen table job. I see medallions on Ebay. anyone with a Forchner bit could mount them, but a logo should be copyright protected as they are liken to being branded with a running iron. Seems S&W is loose with their medallion logos
What do you think?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

They are fakes only if there is an intent to deceive. Many "name" makers will put in medallions if you want them, on grips that are obviously not factory. Some folks, myself included, like them. Others, certainly with justification, don't.

 

[rollin_hot]

grips

Yes. S&W grips are what they are. Adding medallions to another manufacturers grips absolutley makes them imposters. I personally do not take issue with this unless someone is trying to sell them as originals. Personal use is fine.

 

[stantheman86]

Do you mean the people from Thailand selling wood grips with the big plastic S&W medallions in them? They look like crap, they aren't any cheaper than Hogue woods, and I don't see how they make any money The whole point of a "knockoff" is that it's cheaper than the original, not more! He's the guy that has the EBay ads "Super Naturally S&W Butt Round - for quick draw and target hitting from wood of Moei Tree" and they make poor copies of RB and SB magnas, target grips, "combat" grips, etc. They drill holes and stick some big S&W coin looking medallions in them. Some of their grips are $60 or more.

The line is blurred, many manufacturers have and still do, contract with a gripmaker to make their "OEM" grips. Ruger had Sile make some of their wood "Target" grips for the Six series and also the rubber grips they used on the Sixes, except Ruger medallions were added. Ruger had Lett make their GP100 grips, and now has Hogue make them with the Ruger logo.

S&W also has Hogue make their grips with the S&W logo, does it mean these Hogues are "genuine S&W" and the other ones are not? Does it even matter anymore?

When S&W stopped fitting and numbering grips to revolvers, I think the need to keep the gun "original" for it to be collectible kind of went away. Now they grab a set of Uncle Mike's out of a bin, and screw them on, so IMO there really isn't an "OEM" grip for S&W anymore, just whatever contract maker wood or rubber they decide to put on a particular model. If an owner removes numbered woods from a gun and sells them it destroys the originality of the gun forever, if he removes Hogues it doesn't make a difference.

 

[fyimo]

I have had S&W mediallions added to custom grips that I have had made because I like them and it's for my personal pleasure. If I were to sell any (I haven't) I would post them with the makers name and state I had the mediallions added and then it would be up to the buyer to determine their value if I used Ebay.

As far as some of the grips being sold on Ebay made in some off shore countries the problem is the quality varies all over the place and some fit well and look good and some are pure junk. I have bought them in the past and ended up selling even the good fitting ones and now I have all S&W or Kurac custom grips on my S&W's

 

[msinc]

Caveat emptor.....let the buyer beware. What someone does with their grips is their business. If it upsets somebody that I did that with my own personal grips it is theirs to get over, or not I could care less. If somebody does it to try and pawn off imposters as the real thing and they accomplish just that then too bad for the buyer. He should have educated himself better before he threw his money around. The sooner people get over believing that the rest of the world needs to protect them the better and easier their life will be. Let's also not forget that some people want a fake to save some money and that is a business all it's own. Not my thing but hey...there would be no fake rolexes if there were no guys standing in line to buy them. Drugs aren't "right" either but this country spends $100 billion dollars a year getting high.

 

[feralmerril]

Here are two sets of faux ivory with company emblems I have. I think they look good and collectors would know the company never made anything like them.

 

[stantheman86]

George S. Pattons' Registered Magnum doesn't have factory grips,he tossed them in favor of those monogrammed Ivory stocks, but I bet most would call that gun "collectible"

Unless the gun is very collectable, rare or in high or NIB condition, the grips that are on it matter very little. No one cares if a beat up Model 10 selling for $200 has a set of Hogues on it. History will forgive you for putting Pachmayr Presentations on your 28-2. If someone wants to drill out a hole on a set of Hogues and set a S&W medallion in there to "complete" the gun, sounds good to me!

I plan to put a set of Altamonts with the medallions on my 28-2, they will look good and Altamont is an OEM supplier to S&W so they are not "fakes".

Many of the high end wood grip makers have been used as OEM at some point by S&W, including Ahrends, Hogue, Eagle, etc. Again, my viewpoint and that of many others, if the gun didn't come factory with numbered and fitted grips it doesn't matter what's on it, most users change them out to their own tastes anyway.

 

[thomashoward]

Thanks for the input. The reason I ask is there are so many people trying to replace the factory original grips someone sold off their S&W that it has created a secondary market.
People that sell their gun's original grips off their gun and the next guy has or wants to replace them are a scourge IMHO
If I take off grips to put on rubbers, I always bag up the originals withe the make model and serial so they can be matched up someday. I have an ammo box full of grips in baggies with little post-its,but that's just me OCDing

 

[exfebee]

Lets not forget, some companies are "licensed" apparently by S&W to use their emblems on their grips. For example I just received 5 sets of Grips from Altamont & they had the emblems mounted. But then of course Altamont has a contract with S&W to make grips for them. So i guess its ok for them to sell independently grips with the S&W logo. Hogue makes grips for S&W, but i don't see any of theirs sold separately with the logo . Arhends either still does or used to make grips for S&W. I don't see any of their's with the logo. You can be sure that the other companies in Asia.. etc are not licensed by S&W. My 2 cents.
Carl

 

[augy]

If someone adds S&W medallions to a set of grips (any maker) not S&W manufacture,do you consider these fake or impostors?I have seen this on both S&W and Ruger. One installation was so bad it was clearly a kitchen table job.
What do you think?

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't consider them fake or impostors, but just a good enhancement to the gun if done right.

I have several grips I'd like to put S&W medallions on, but I don't have any spare medallions, and I'm not sure I could do a professional job.

augy

 

[dant]

we've seen MANY , MANY "collectors" ?? ( owners) sell off their grips , if they don't like them , or even buy up another gun, just to get the grips off it, have been for years, since the 'second' gun was made most likely........yes, as said above, it comes under the "personal use" ,your gun, do what YOU need, want to make it work for you... now,in the case of ANY one selling fakes (perpetrating a fraud) or whatever, then "caveat emptor baby" and shame on them, if they get too big, the company 's lawyers will give them a "cease and desist", Colt and Ruger does that all the time, they want to sell you ( the maker) a copy right license, to sell their stuff.......besides, grips come under the catagory of "accessories" it's NOT the actual product itself....until you mark them as such, and yes, maybe "technically" the medallions could be construed as "marking" in the event of " advertised resale"(not for YOUR personal use), hell, thats for the lawyers to decide, yes, the good old "cease and desist"....
usually works as their lawyers work for them ( on retainer or corporate counsel), whatever, you could not never try and keep up with them in any litigation..............

 

[stantheman86]

I got so tired of having to peel off craptastic Pachmayrs and Hogues from used S&W's and searching for Magnas on FleaBay or GB, that unless the price is really good I won't buy a used S&W if the original woods aren't on it.......IMO, an older S&W that is minus the original wood grips, is minus $50-100 for the asking price, depending on the type of gun.......too many "rare" S&W's on GunBroke with a set of Hogues on them, well, collectors won't pay top dollar unless the original woods are there.

 

[shawn mccarver]

If someone adds S&W medallions to a set of grips (any maker) not S&W manufacture,do you consider these fake or impostors?I have seen this on both S&W and Ruger. One installation was so bad it was clearly a kitchen table job. I see medallions on Ebay. anyone with a Forchner bit could mount them, but a logo should be copyright protected as they are liken to being branded with a running iron. Seems S&W is loose with their medallion logos
What do you think?

Just my thought, but it is "fake" in my opinion if the maker tries to pass it off as being made by Smith & Wesson when it is not.

For the most part, the makers of quality after market grips do not attempt to pass off their products as being factory made.

Of course, there will be those who say that S&W does not make any of its own grips these days, therefore they are all "after market," but the point I am trying to make is that it is a genuine S&W grip, in my opinion, if S&W offers it on its guns originally or sells it as an authorized factory replacement grip.

Thus, in my mind, it is fake if it is passed off as either an original grip for the particular model or a factory sold replacement grip when it is not.

 

[stantheman86]

Any S&W fan worth his salt can tell a "fake" grip from an OEM supplier.

Unless you are an "investor" or collect NIB or rare S&W's, again, if you like the grip, go with it.

If a guy with a holster worn Model 10 wants to make a grip out of banana peels, Junior Mints and melted candle wax and stick some S&W medallions in there, then I say go for it and have fun

 

[msinc]

I got so tired of having to peel off craptastic Pachmayrs and Hogues from used S&W's and searching for Magnas on FleaBay or GB, that unless the price is really good I won't buy a used S&W if the original woods aren't on it.......IMO, an older S&W that is minus the original wood grips, is minus $50-100 for the asking price, depending on the type of gun.......too many "rare" S&W's on GunBroke with a set of Hogues on them, well, collectors won't pay top dollar unless the original woods are there.

Yeah, this is a good point but the opposite end of it is that many of us would just as quickly buy say a really nice Model 28-2 with rubber grips for $250.00 as opposed to a "correct" 28 for $500.00. Hell for $250.00 you might find a perfect set of the correct grips and have some money left over. It's not like the lack of grips cant be made right. I personally hate having to chase things down but I also collect old American doubles and there is nothing worse than finding one in near perfect shape but some disease infested moron has hacked a few inches off the barrels.

 

[AveragEd]

As a minor-league collector, I look for original grips on a gun but if they aren't there and the gun is nice otherwise, I try to buy ones from S&W. I recently bought a 686-3 with an unfluted cylinder that was in as-new condition but had a pair of very good-looking generic grips that looked for all the world like S&W smooth target grips until I got the gun and saw the emblems looked like a plant's leaves.

S&W no longer offers many grips for square-butt K/L guns, so I bought a pair of laminated rosewood combat grips from S&W. At about the same time, I bought another 686 with nicely-figured checkered target grips, which the unfluted gun's box label indicated it was manufactured with, so I put them on the unfluted gun and the rosewoods on the second one. Now the more collectable gun has the correct grips and the "shooter" has attractive (and more comfortable) "factory" grips on it.

I've also purchased "S&W" finger-groove grips from Gun Grip Supply Company. They look like the real deal and are very nicely made. For a "shooter" gun, they certainly pump up the appearance and improve the feel.

Ed

 

[stantheman86]

Oh yes, I certainly will buy a nice S&W with rubbers on it, but I won't pay full retail for it......dealers still ask $500 for a 28-2 with a set of $10 Pachmayrs on it. Give me the same gun for $400 and I'll take it, and then have to spend $40-50 for Magnas on EBay which is getting increasingly harder to find as so many people are doing the same thing, trying to "right" a gun that had rubbers put on it in the 80's or 90's and now needs to be made "correct" again.

Back in the 80's and 90's, the "thing to do" was put Hogues or Pachmayrs on your new S&W. Unfortunately many people discarded the woods because they didn't think they would ever need them. My Dad changed the factory woods out for Hogues on his 586 and 66 he bought new in 1989 but he saves things, so we still have the factory grips, boxes, tools, papers etc. for these guns. In fact I put the factory Targets back on the 586 this summer because I couldn't stand seeing those bike tires on the gun anymore.

 

[drjjpdc]

I'm with Stantheman. Caveat Emptor is really applicable to honest mistakes or lack of knowledge. Anything else is fraud/chicanery.
BTW, I agree with the author in the S&W guide (3rd ed.) that coke bottle grips should not be taken off the original gun and sold alone for big bucks. But then I've always been on the road less traveled.

 

[stantheman86]

The other thing that annoys me is the people selling 50's era M&P's for $400+ with Pachmayr Grippers on them......those Diamond Magnas aren't cheap, for that it's at least -$100 for that since they are hard to find, and those are numbered to the gun so any collectibility is nuked.....