first V serial number range in .38 special

[robbt]

hi guys , what was the first V serial number range for S&W victories in . 38 special ??

 

[scha]

The V serial numbers began with serial V1 in approximately November of 1941. The previous serial numbers reached 1,000,000 at this time and the V numbers began a new series starting at V1 and the V numbers ran until approximately VS825,000 in March 1945. The S was added at around number 800,000 when a new type of hammer block was installed. After the War was over the V was dropped from the serial numbers and production of M&P revolvers continued with the "S" series.

The 38 Special revolvers began at around V40,000 in 1942.

Hope this helps.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Robert:

I have to disagree with Scha on this one. V1 was a presentation gun and factory records show it was "shipped" on 4/24/42, not November, 1941. It was a 4 inch .38 Special gun. The very earliest V-prefix revolvers were all considered special guns. I would say that the first substantial shipment of V-prefix guns probably occurred in May or more likely June, 1942. (Note the difference between production and shipment dates. S&W did not record production dates, only shipment dates.)

I also have to disagree with the statement "The 38 Special revolvers began at around V40,000 in 1942." That is not the case. The Victory Database shows many, many .38 Special guns shipped between V1 and V40,000.

HTH.

 

[scha]

Charlie, thanks for updating/correcting the data I provided. I got the information from the book, Smith & Wesson 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks, but I am sure you have more specific and detailed information about these revolvers.

Are there any plans to put the Victory Database on the web at some time? I am sure many would like to understand more about these revolvers.


Steve

 

[rburg]

Which serial # V1? I read an article not that long ago which concluded there were 2 of the V1 serial guns. Anybody else remember it?

 

[Duster42]

I have S/N V369 in .38 Special. It was shipped on June 18, 1942.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Which serial # V1? I read an article not that long ago which concluded there were 2 of the V1 serial guns. Anybody else remember it?

Dick:

There may have been two, or maybe just one. V1 is recorded as having shipped to Lt. General William S. Knudsen in Washington, DC in 1942. The records also indicate that V1 was presented to President Harry Truman after the end of the war. The Truman gun is now at the Truman Library. Some think that the Truman gun was a post-war creation for the President. Others think it was the original V1 that was returned to the factory and then presented to the President. Take your pick.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Charlie, thanks for updating/correcting the data I provided. I got the information from the book, Smith & Wesson 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks, but I am sure you have more specific and detailed information about these revolvers. Are there any plans to put the Victory Database on the web at some time? I am sure many would like to understand more about these revolvers. Steve

Hi Steve:

Glad to be of some assistance. I, too, have owned "Smith & Wesson 1857-1945" for many years and it remains a key resource for me and for other Smith collectors. However, it was originally published, I believe, back in 1966. Since then quite a bit of new and updated information on the Victory has been gathered.

Another change in the 44 years since the book was published has been the digital revolution. That has allowed the collection and analysis of large amounts of data with relative ease, as compared to the old ink and index card/legal pad method we all used years ago. The Victory Model Database was created by my pal and collaborator LWCmdr45 about a decade ago and it continues to be a valuable source of information to collectors. However, there are no present plans to have the Database placed on the web.

 

[opoefc]

Dick, and others. I wrote the article you recall and it's published in the S&WCA Journal Vol. 33 No. 3 Winter 1999. Like Charlie said, time goes by and more data comes to light. At the time of the 1999 article, the S&W records did not correctly identify Gen. Knudsen as the receiver of the first V1. I later found a copy of Carl Hellstrom's note book and could tie Gen. Knudsen (Name mispelled in the S&W records as "Kundsen") to the first V1 and discovered in the notes that 6 guns (No. 1,000,000 V1 V2 V3 V4 & V5) were not produced on the Victory model assembly line, therefore did not have the tooling, fitters & assembles marks on other Victory Models, but were all hand made in the Service Dep't as special VIP guns, with high polish blue finish, fancy grained stocks, etc. My article made the assumption that the first V model guns were made on the regular assembly lines, as other V models. Roy Jinks & I searched many sources looking for a "Gen. Kundsen" as the name was spelled in the early shipping records. No luck - there was no General Officer by that name in the US Army or any of our WW2 Allies, including China, or any record of that name ever attending a military academy any where in the world. Here's the Rest of the Story: William Knudsen was head of General Motors and a manufacturing/production genius. Pres. Roosevelt appointed him as Chief of all wartime industrial production in the US for the war's duration, at a dollar a year salary. He also appointed Knudsen as a Lt. General in the US Army, in order that he had the military rank necessay to enter any military facility, etc. Unfortunately an eager intern at S&W destroyed all Hellstroms records after he retired, so correspondence between Hellstrom & Knudsen regarding the return of V1 to S&W at the end of WW2 is missing. Jinks felt that the gun presented to Truman was a replica of the original V1. Could be, but until I can find out from further research, I can't prove one way or the other, whether the gun given to Truman was a restoration of the original V1 as returned to S&W, or not. Research continues. Ed.