Fixing Endshake...

[kingston73]

I know there are many threads about this, and I just spent about an hour reading through them, but I'm still confused about a few things. My new-to-me 64-1 has a bit of front/back cylinder movement, the yoke is solid so it is definitely the cylinder movement only. I have read that it is a fairly simple job to install a shim or 2 to eliminate it, but here are my questions:
1) Do I need to buy the yoke reamer before installing the shims, and/or is there a less expensive way of doing the same job? $47 for a 1 time fix seems excessive to me.
(Brownells Search : Search Results for "Power Cylinder Endshake Bearings" - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools)

2) I've read some posts where people installed 2 or more shims with no problems at all, but then a few posts say if you use more than 1 shim it causes binding. Which is it? Brownels sells packs of 10 shims for $18, but I want to make sure I buy the correct ones.

3) When unscrewing the cylinder and yoke, what do I have to have? I've seen some video's using just snap caps, others have said you can just use empty cases, and then others say you have to have the correct tool to do it or you'll damage things. Again, which is it?

I'm a fairly handy person and decent mechanic, but this is the first time doing small gun work. I've managed to completely dissassembly and put together my Ruger SS, but I want to make sure I do things right before diving in here. Any other suggestions or thoughts are welcome, and thanks ahead of time.
2)

 

[bgrafsr]

I believe you can get the shims in different thicknesses, but 2 thousandths seems to be the norm. I would not use more than one.

You do not need special tools to remove the extractor rod assembly from the cylinder, but do use used cases in at least three of the cylinder chambers.

You can remove the rod by placing the rod in a piece of leather and clamping it in a vise. The rod has left hand threads, so unscrew in the correct direction, which should be clockwise.

You do not need to ream the inside of the yoke. You can also stretch the yoke to remove endshake, but this takes a couple of special tools to do so. To stretch the yoke, you use a small pipe cutter, in which the cutter edge has been ground flat, so as not to cut through the yoke while turning it around the yoke tube. A special tool is inserted in to the yoke to keep the yoke tube cylindrical while using the stretching tool. Usually after stretching the yoke, you have to use a cutter to square up the end of the yoke too.

If you live near Cleveland, Ohio, I would be glad to help you out, as I have the armorers tools necessary to do the fix.

Bill

 

[cobra44]

The yoke reamer is suggested before installing the shims.
I have done it both ways, and have not had a problem not reaming it out. However, I have not put that many rounds through the un reamed revolver.
I have added one shim and I have added 2 shims with no problems.
You need to figure out how much shim you need and go from there as far as the thickness/shims needed.
Use empty brass when unscrewing the rod that holds the cylinder. I use an old drill chuck to un screw the rod.
Are you sure that you need shims? Many revolvers will move back and fourth to a point. The shims are only needed when you have excessive movement.
Check the play with a feeler guage. Insert the guage behind the barrel. Push the cylinder back and check the play.
You may not even need shims.
Hope this helps

 

[semperfi71]

Hi,

I ain't no gunsmith. But I'm cheap at times. So I rarely do my own work.

I have a S&W Heavy Duty which I repaired the end shake on myself.

It helps to have the proper tool for removing the ejector rod. I cannot remember the name or where I found mine but they are out there. Do a search here for "ejector rod tool" maybe that will help.

I have heard here on the Forum whereby individuals have used an old chuck removed from a drill to serve for the same purpose.

When removing the rejector rod it is strongly suggested to have at least three fired cases [I would assume snap caps would work] alternating in the chambers.

When all is dissassembled deep inside the cylinder, towards the rear, is where the shims go. Be careful in installing them so that they go straight and true.

I had to use two shims, I forget the size, there are several sizes.

I did not seem to need a yoke reamer, I THINK that tool is only necessary if the area where the shims go is buggered up.

I do suggest you get the book on gunsmithing S&W revolver by Jerry Kuhnhuosen [spelling?] it will be always useful on working on S&W revolvers and explains the above steps in better detail.

Hopefully more knowlegeable folks will help you here.

 

[tomcatt51]

There are two cutters/reamers for the yoke: one is a reamer used to ream the yoke id if you use the yoke stretcher instead of shimming. The stretcher "squishes" down the yoke id and you use the reamer to open the id back up. The other cutter squares up the end of the yoke and can be used to shorten the yoke. I prefer using the .004" shims and usually slightly shorten the yoke so I can. You can stack shims with no problem, if you put alot of rds thru your gun the .004" shims hold up best.

Putting the ejector rod in a drill chuck (one that uses a chuck key) works better than the "proper" tool. The newer ejector rods are left hand thread (since the 50's?). Just put empties in the chambers when you tighten or loosen the ejector rod. When reassembling the last time a very small amount of blue loctite on the ejector rod threads will keep it from unscrewing in service which ties up the gun. I'm sure some will say using loctite is heresy but used sparingly can save you some grief. Use a very small amount on the yoke sideplate screw too. They tend to come loose and will embarrass you by dropping the yoke and cylinder assy on the ground during a reload. Have fun.

 

[Black_Sheep]

I have heard here on the Forum whereby individuals have used an old chuck removed from a drill to serve for the same purpose.

That's how I removed my Model 12 ejector rod, it worked perfectly...

 

[Lowpower]

You might also try MidwayUSA.com. On their home page they have a free video library and there is a video tutorial on how to fix endshake on a S&W revolver.

 

[Dragon88]

YouTube - Gunsmith - Fix excessive cylinder endshake in S&W revolver

 

[ViperR]

There is also something about grinding the inside of the cylinder to remove the pounded groove that the yoke end created and caused endshake. It has to be squared. I used a turned down Dremel stone to just fit inside the cylinders yoke channel and lightly rotated it to grind it square. Then add a bearing. Otherwise, endshake will return. Read it here, but it was a while back.

 

[tomcatt51]

There is also something about grinding the inside of the cylinder to remove the pounded groove that the yoke end created and caused endshake. It has to be squared. I used a turned down Dremel stone to just fit inside the cylinders yoke channel and lightly rotated it to grind it square. Then add a bearing. Otherwise, endshake will return. Read it here, but it was a while back.

Yes. Shimming a gun with a grooved cylinder will leave you wondering how a .002" shim removed .005" endshake and will end up trashing the shim. I've got a "W" drill bit (fits in the cylinder perfectly) with the shank end ground flat and a piece of 220 or 320 sandpaper glued on the end for reaching in and removing any groove. It's worth trimming the yoke and installing a .004" shim even on a new gun so it never develops a groove.

 

[dfariswheel]

You don't "have to" ream the end of the yoke barrel.
The reason for reaming is to clean up the end of the barrel and remove any unevenness or high or low spots. This insures the end of the yoke barrel is perfectly flat and at 90 degrees to the yoke barrel.

The reason it's reamed is just good professional gunsmithing practice. When you do a job "right" it tends to stay fixed.
However, many people just drop a washer or two down the cylinder hole and this seems to last for many years of heavy use.

One pointer: GREASE the washers, don't oil them.
A greased washer will last virtually forever in this application.
There's no reason two or even more washers should give trouble unless they got the end shake TOO tight and cause binding.

Three empty cases to support the ejector is all that's needed.
The big dangers are bending the ejector rod, or turning things the wrong way and stripping the threads.

In case you didn't read a clear explanation of how to measure end shake and so determine what washers are needed:

Push the cylinder to the rear and HOLD IT there while you gage the barrel/cylinder gap with an automotive feeler gage.
Then push the cylinder forward and hold it there while you gage it again.
Subtract one measurement from another and that's how much end shake you have.
You have to have at least a tiny amount or the cylinder will bind, which may be where the multiple washer story came from.

A perfect amount of end shake is an amount that's barely detectable, but there.

 

[kingston73]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I did the measurements right and I have about .002 or .003 worth of play front to back, so it's just at the threshold of needing adjustment? Should I just not worry about it and move on or should I try installing a .002 shim to keep the endshake from getting worse?

Another thing I just noticed, and please excuse me if this is a stupid question...I searched and couldn't find any tolerance measurements for yoke movement. This is my first DA revolver, I've only had single actions and auto's before this, so I don't know what to expect as far as tightness goes. My yoke is rock solid front to back, it has zero movement and swings out smooth and easy, but when it's locked up I can push the ejector rod or cylinder sideways and move the yoke away from the frame a very little bit. It's less than .002 but that is the smallest feeler gauge I have so I don't know how much exactly. Is this a bad thing or acceptable, and if it needs to be fixed is this a pro job?

Last question, if I install the shim which way do I turn the cylinder to unscrew? I read the FAQ and know it's counter clockwise threads, but with the ejector rod clamped, with me facing the cylinder mouth (looking down the barrel) am I turning the cylinder counter clockwise?

Again, thanks for all the replies. I'm going to order the Smith manual everybody recommends, but in the mean time I'm trying to learn all I can about my new 33 year old gun.

 

[cobra44]

Wow! That is hardly any play at all.
I think that you are fine as far as wear. I would just leave it the way it is. You need some play and that is within the margin.
When I installed the shims, mine was at .009.

 

[tomcatt51]

On a non-magnum, particularly if you're going to be shooting it DA, .002-.003 is just fine.