German Dagger I came across in my stash.....

[THREEDFLYER]

I was digging through my U.S. Miltary knife/bayonet collection and came across this German dagger that I forgot I had....

At first I thought is might be a reproduction, but I did some research and came across this information.

Alles Fur Deutschland SA Daggers | Lakesidetrader

Mine is in rough shape, but seems legit from what I can tell.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Hang on to it and see if it will clean up some. It's surprising that the leather belt clip is in such good shape but the blade and scabbard are so pitted. Sturmabteilung (SA) daggers are quite collectible, but you have to beware of counterfeits when shopping. I can't make out the cutler's hallmark, there were several who made these during that period.
I also own one, in much better shape overall, but my leather belt clip isn't as nice as yours. I was fortunate to also get a sheaf of paperwork which turned out to be everything the original owner of my dagger had related to his membership in the SA. Paybook, application, authorization to be on Reich property and much more, with dates showing he joined before the start of the war. They also give authenticity to the dagger.

SS daggers are more rare and command much higher prices. The main differences are that the hilt and scabbard is black instead of brown, it has the SS logo in the place of the SA logo, and the script on the blade says "Meine Ehre Heist Treue" (My Honor Is Faithfulness) instead of "All For The Fatherland".

 

[30-30remchester]

My uncle who served with Patton during WW2 had several of these German daggers. I asked him once where he acquired them. He said the men he got them from didn't need them anymore.

 

[Ματθιας]

That's, at least, a $500 piece if sold in the local collectable shop here in ABQ.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
I think this one came my way as part of a collection I purchased a few years ago and got thrown in the bayonet/knife bin that contains my US stuff.

Not sure I'll keep it, but I will see if a bit of Kroil might clean it up a bit....although the blade has pitting.

I am thinking this one sat outside for a bit at some point in it's existence.

 

[Ματθιας]

My unsolicited advice: If it has active rust, try to stop it.

If you're going to sell it, don't take the patina off - you'll kill the value to a collector.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

My unsolicited advice: If it has active rust, try to stop it.

If you're going to sell it, don't take the patina off - you'll kill the value to a collector.

I will apply a thin coat of KROIL which is probably the best penetrating oil I have come across....then gently brush with a nylon toothbrush.

I don't plan to buff it out, just as you said "Stop the rust" from doing more damage.

With the pitting and oxidation it would certainly ruin the value by trying to buff it out at this point.

Personally I like the patina and aging....it's all about the history!!

On another subject, I am listing a group of US bayonets on the forum today so if you folks are US collectors check it out!

 

[THREEDFLYER]

I sent photos to Paul at the Military Collectibles site and he tells me that this dagger is the NSKK dagger for the Motor Corps....probably circa 1940
He claims it would retail in the $300 range in it's current condition

Good to know!

 

[DWalt]

I remember Artie when all sorts of WWII German blades were common at gun shows, and cheap. I never bought any for fear they were fakes and I didn't know how to spot a fake. No internet back then.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I remember Artie when all sorts of WWII German blades were common at gun shows, and cheap. I never bought any for fear they were fakes and I didn't know how to spot a fake. No internet back then.

You do have to do your homework to keep from getting scammed on stuff like this.

I bought my knife from a friend, a retired Army SF CSM who had been stationed in Germany (I forget the city) back in the 1980's. He rented a house off base instead of taking base housing, and during a basement cleanup when they moved in found a dilapidated chest of drawers in a corner. Opening a drawer, all this stuff (dagger and papers) was in a cardboard box. He showed it to his landlord, who seemed rather embarrassed about seeing it and requested the at-the-time SM dispose of it for him (Nazi materials are illegal in Germany today). The dagger had belonged to his grandfather. Of course, this was also West Germany, before Reunification. He kept it and put it with all the other souvenirs he'd collected over the years. A couple of years ago, he moved off-grid to eastern Alaska and started selling everything he didn't need to survive up there. I also bought a new in the box S&W M41 he'd bought in 1985. Not totally new, he said he'd shot maybe two or three magazines through it.

I had no doubts as to the authenticity of the dagger I bought, seeing as who it had come from and all the paperwork that was with it.

 

[mauser9]

Figured it was a NSKK with the black looking scabbard. SA daggers had the brown scabbard. Been big with collectors over the years along with any Third Reich items especially 98ks which have really shot up in value. Hopefully will look better after kroil. Nice to see.

 

[murphydog]

My uncle who served with Patton during WW2 had several of these German daggers. I asked him once where he acquired them. He said the men he got them from didn't need them anymore.

That was the exact quote from my local dealer, whose grandfather had "liberated" a P08 during WW II. Undoubtedly a common occurrence.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

When I was 12 or 13 (1968-9) Dad and I went to an estate auction in Circleville, Ohio. We must have bought other stuff too, but the only thing I remember buying was a large cardboard box full of Nazi stuff. $300 sticks in my mind and the auctioneer refusing to see Dad trying to bid! It almost sold to a friend of the auctioneer for $50 but I made a scene they couldn't ignore!

The only dagger in the box was a long thin dagger with "Ivory" handle, that when we sold it a few months later, the buyer said it was "Order of the White Cross." Lots of flags and arm bands. To me the neatest flag was a "Successful Mission" submarine conning tower banner. There were no military medals, but lots of political badges and rally pins (clear back to about 1935). In the late 60's we go $1500 for the dagger, and $300 for that flag.

Out of the box I got to keep a unused simple swastika arm band and an SA holster for a Mauser HSc That I kept my Nazi Police PPk in. Years (late 80's) later I had the PPk for sale with the holster at an OGCA show. I would have given the holster to whoever bought to gun, but a guy ask if I would sell just the holster, I said make me an offer. He said $60, I said sold. I said to the guy I bet you got a good deal, he said lots of people "Oil" them instead of saddle soap, and that was a good price for the condition close to 100%). That gun show I only sold $125 for the day. and booth rent was $30 a day!

Ivan

 

[Hair Trigger]

That was the exact quote from my local dealer, whose grandfather had "liberated" a P08 during WW II. Undoubtedly a common occurrence.

GI's looked for souvenirs when a battle was over or when they had time. Hitler-Jugend knives (Hitler Youth) were a very desired knife, as well as the SA and SS daggers and other special service knives. P-08's were highly prized, usually only officers carried such a sidearm. Pillage and plunder was the order of the day, and is well documented and accurately portrayed in Band Of Brothers when Easy Company entered Berchtesgaden near the end of the war. Similar souvenirs were taken by Pacific Marines, like Nambu pistols, Rising Sun flags, Katana swords, etc.

 

[diyj98]

Very few of the various dress daggers would have ever been captured in combat. These were dress item, and combat worn. I’ve bought a number of them over the years from people who told me the story about grandpa taking it off a dead German general or some similar story. Great stories, but most are tall tales.

 

[walnutred]

in the mid 80s I was working as a carpenter and we had a stonemason who was born in Berlin. He was 14 when the war ended and we talked about it a little. One Monday he mentioned that he had gone to a gunshow trying to find a Hitler Youth knife like he had when he was a kid. He said he refused to pay the going rate because in his opinion most were made after the war.

He explained that his first post war job was at a military metals factory. After the war the GIs would pay good prices, or more importantly trade food, for Nazi souvenirs. So they fired up the machines that made military medals for the Third Reich and made medals and other stuff for the GIs for as long as the raw material held out.

Medals made prior to May 7th are WW2 production and those made after May 7th are not. They were made on the same machines, often by the same people. So how do you know the difference? I imagine the knife makers were doing the same thing.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Looking at that dagger sends chills up and down my spine. It had ONE use and it wasn't for slicing field rations. Fascinating piece of the dark side history.

 

[John Adams]

Iraqi Naval dagger

This is an Iraq Navy dagger I brought back from the War in 2003.
The top of the blade is marked OKC Solingen German. I have no idea what the Arabic say. The Nazi daggers my uncle brought back from WWII also marked Solingen. The Iraqi military saluted and marched like the Brits; carried Russian guns, German daggers and surrendered like the French.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Looking at that dagger sends chills up and down my spine. It had ONE use and it wasn't for slicing field rations. Fascinating piece of the dark side history.

The SA and SS type daggers were intended as ceremonial dresswear and not as fighting knives. The blades will cut, but the steel won't hold a fine cutting edge like a fighting knife does. I don't imagine that stopped many from being used like you'd thing a knife is supposed to be. The SA sort of degraded to street thugs upon Hitler's complete takeover of the government, picking fights in the streets with Communist and anti-Nazi groups, so somebody was bound to get stabbed with one.

And then there was "The Night of the Long Knives", where the SS eliminated the top tier of the SA command structure and many others which Hitler felt threatened his power. I haven't seen a direct explanation of the term, but I think it probably has a lot to do with these knives.

This is an Iraq Navy dagger I brought back from the War in 2003.
The top of the blade is marked OKC Solingen German. I have no idea what the Arabic say. The Nazi daggers my uncle brought back from WWII also marked Solingen. The Iraqi military saluted and marched like the Brits; carried Russian guns, German daggers and surrendered like the French.

Solingen is a city in west-central Germany called the "City of Blades" because of the cutlery industry there. They export worldwide, so it isn't unusual to see a Solingen hallmark on a knife from the Mideast