Not very scientific but did a little testing with water jugs using the soft cast GT Bullets. Only tested the 130gr and 145gr both HP. Had some 160gr loaded but didn’t have enough jugs to test. Also fired a Remington Golden Saber 125gr +P HP to compare. Loaded with 5.0 & 5.2gr of Universal both should have been in the 800+ FPS range out of a Model 60. The surprise was the 130gr didn’t expand at all and was found in 5th jug! Since I ran out of water, I couldn’t retest but did fire the 3 different rounds into some dry magazines with similar results. The 130gr does seem to have thicker walls around the hollow cavity than the 140gr and the cavity on the 140gr is larger. The 140gr was found in 4th jug and expanded to .575 while the Golden Saber was Found in 3rd jug but expanded tp .610. Was a little surprised also that the GS didn’t penetrate as far as the soft cast. For what it’s worth, when I got back home I took a Zero Swaged bullet and tried to compare the “hardness” to the GT’s. Using a scribe, pliers and a vice, my guess is they are close with the staged maybe a little softer. What did I learn? My results were close to the Luckygunner test. I do and sill will carry the Golden Saber for defense but the 140gr GT appears it would be a great defense bullet. Next time I will retest the 130gr and also want to see what the 160gr will do as well. One last note. I did fire all 3 weight GT Bullets in my 8 3/8” mod 686 to check accuracy. At 15 yards, all 3 we’re very accurate. Easy to shoot 1” groups with a red dot scope and secure rest. Attached a picture of recovered bullets.
GT Bullets Range Report
- Thread starter Eddietruett
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I was looking very hard at the 130 gr. lead HP as a back up to the 125 JHP.
I thought it might be as good or better for expansion.
In all fairness.............
you gave the 140 gr MORE powder than the lighter 130 gr. bullet.
That is not a fair test in the fps for both bullets.
Next time give the 130gr. 5.4grs of powder and see what happens.
I do agree that the 140 weight bullet did great, though.
My J frame shoots the 140 XTP in tighter groups than the factory 135gr Gold Dot.
Good shooting.
I thought it might be as good or better for expansion.
In all fairness.............
you gave the 140 gr MORE powder than the lighter 130 gr. bullet.
That is not a fair test in the fps for both bullets.
Next time give the 130gr. 5.4grs of powder and see what happens.
I do agree that the 140 weight bullet did great, though.
My J frame shoots the 140 XTP in tighter groups than the factory 135gr Gold Dot.
Good shooting.
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FWIW:
I like to use wetpack instead of water jugs to test hp's/penetration/expansion. Put 9" to 12" of newspapers together with duct tape & put the bundle in a cooler standing upright. I make enough bundles to fill the cooler & then I fill the cooler with water. The newspaper soaks the water up & becomes wetpack. Take the cooler to the range and pull a bundle out, set it up with a target stapled to it and test away. Each bundle is good for +/- 10 shots.
The hp's you tested are 11bhn which is kind of hard. I shoot similar designed hp's and try to use +/- 9bhn alloy. THese 125gr hp's were 9bhn with a 1050fps load.
Typically you want around 1bhn per 100fps with a cast/lead hp.
220gr cast hbwc's shot from a snubnosed 44spl/975fps (8bhn).
210gr hb hp swc shot from a snubnosed 44spl/1000fps (8bhn).
Made these swaged hp's for deer hunting.
It took several tries to get the alloy right so the bullets stayed intact for the velocity of 1100fps which simulated a 75yd to 100yd hit/velocity with a hot load. ended up using a +/- 11bhn alloy tested in wetpack @ 25yds.
The gt hp's you bought/tested are a great design, to bad they are 11bhn. The huge hp whole is correct for short bbl'd firearms. The 11bhn, not so much. Same bullet cast with different hp pins.
The penta hp's ='s 9bhn 800fps to 1000fps
The large round hp's ='s 10bhn 1000fps to 1200fps
The small round hp's ='s 12bhn 1200fps to 1400fps
Nevada ed is spot on, Id heat that lighter bullet up with a little more powder and re-test.
I like to use wetpack instead of water jugs to test hp's/penetration/expansion. Put 9" to 12" of newspapers together with duct tape & put the bundle in a cooler standing upright. I make enough bundles to fill the cooler & then I fill the cooler with water. The newspaper soaks the water up & becomes wetpack. Take the cooler to the range and pull a bundle out, set it up with a target stapled to it and test away. Each bundle is good for +/- 10 shots.
The hp's you tested are 11bhn which is kind of hard. I shoot similar designed hp's and try to use +/- 9bhn alloy. THese 125gr hp's were 9bhn with a 1050fps load.
Typically you want around 1bhn per 100fps with a cast/lead hp.
220gr cast hbwc's shot from a snubnosed 44spl/975fps (8bhn).
210gr hb hp swc shot from a snubnosed 44spl/1000fps (8bhn).
Made these swaged hp's for deer hunting.
It took several tries to get the alloy right so the bullets stayed intact for the velocity of 1100fps which simulated a 75yd to 100yd hit/velocity with a hot load. ended up using a +/- 11bhn alloy tested in wetpack @ 25yds.
The gt hp's you bought/tested are a great design, to bad they are 11bhn. The huge hp whole is correct for short bbl'd firearms. The 11bhn, not so much. Same bullet cast with different hp pins.
The penta hp's ='s 9bhn 800fps to 1000fps
The large round hp's ='s 10bhn 1000fps to 1200fps
The small round hp's ='s 12bhn 1200fps to 1400fps
Nevada ed is spot on, Id heat that lighter bullet up with a little more powder and re-test.
SquarePizza
Member
I love that GT bullets has offered a full line of lead HP designs across all of their calibers.
That said, they are too hard. They need to be pushed near the top of their caliber's speed to get good expansion. This sucks for those of us that wish to play with 38/41/44 specials.
They shoot great, they are super accurate and I haven't experienced leading yet. I just wish they would offer custom hardness orders because I would love to stay with their designs.
That said, they are too hard. They need to be pushed near the top of their caliber's speed to get good expansion. This sucks for those of us that wish to play with 38/41/44 specials.
They shoot great, they are super accurate and I haven't experienced leading yet. I just wish they would offer custom hardness orders because I would love to stay with their designs.
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OP
I think I listed powder backwards. My bad. The 130 got the higher charge. I’m thinking results have to do with bullet design. The 130 has. More tapered point with what appears to me to be thicker walls. Did not put the calipers on them. I’m no engineer but the design of the heavier bullets looks like it should expand more. I’ll run test again soon. Also want to test their 160 and 180
Hasbeen1945
Absent Comrade
FWIW:
I like to use wetpack instead of water jugs to test hp's/penetration/expansion. Put 9" to 12" of newspapers together with duct tape & put the bundle in a cooler standing upright. I make enough bundles to fill the cooler & then I fill the cooler with water. The newspaper soaks the water up & becomes wetpack. Take the cooler to the range and pull a bundle out, set it up with a target stapled to it and test away. Each bundle is good for +/- 10 shots.
The hp's you tested are 11bhn which is kind of hard. I shoot similar designed hp's and try to use +/- 9bhn alloy. THese 125gr hp's were 9bhn with a 1050fps load.
Typically you want around 1bhn per 100fps with a cast/lead hp.
220gr cast hbwc's shot from a snubnosed 44spl/975fps (8bhn).
210gr hb hp swc shot from a snubnosed 44spl/1000fps (8bhn).
Made these swaged hp's for deer hunting.
It took several tries to get the alloy right so the bullets stayed intact for the velocity of 1100fps which simulated a 75yd to 100yd hit/velocity with a hot load. ended up using a +/- 11bhn alloy tested in wetpack @ 25yds.
The gt hp's you bought/tested are a great design, to bad they are 11bhn. The huge hp whole is correct for short bbl'd firearms. The 11bhn, not so much. Same bullet cast with different hp pins.
The penta hp's ='s 9bhn 800fps to 1000fps
The large round hp's ='s 10bhn 1000fps to 1200fps
The small round hp's ='s 12bhn 1200fps to 1400fps
Nevada ed is spot on, Id heat that lighter bullet up with a little more powder and re-test.
That’s some serious testing.
OP
I agree with the product offerings and the quality of the ones I received was as good as I’ve ever seen. All I’ve tried were extremely accurate even out to 80 yards. I didn’t find anything on their website listing the hardness but only the alloy mixture which means squat to me above poster says they are 11 and I’ll go with that. I’ve been told the Rim Rock SWCHP is around 7 and the ones I tested were too soft for my liking. Fantastic expansion but penetration was not very good. As far as a carry round, I’ll still stuck on the Golden Saber +P mainly based on the Lucky Gunner test and my non scientific testing combined but it’s fun to try different stuff and over all I’m impressed with the GT 140gr. Can’t wait to try their others. Kudos also to GT for offering sample packs. I’ve got a lot of bullets laying around that I had to buy 500 to try and for whatever reason I didn’t like. Oh the joys of reloading!!
A pretty good alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
The "pencil" tests actually are extremely close to an alloy's bhn. I've tested known alloys with pencils and they were spot on. If the pencil scratches into the alloy/bullet, try the next hardness of pencil. You will get to the point where the next harder pencil will not scratch the alloy/bullet. With the GT bullet a B@ pencil should scrath/dig into te bullet. But a B pencil will not.
GT's website says they cast all their bullets with 96/2/2
96% lead
2% tin
2% antimony
The alloy calculator in the above link puts the GT alloy at 11bhn
They came up with the lead calculator in the link above over on the castbollits website.They also came up with the pencil test pictured above.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
The "pencil" tests actually are extremely close to an alloy's bhn. I've tested known alloys with pencils and they were spot on. If the pencil scratches into the alloy/bullet, try the next hardness of pencil. You will get to the point where the next harder pencil will not scratch the alloy/bullet. With the GT bullet a B@ pencil should scrath/dig into te bullet. But a B pencil will not.
GT's website says they cast all their bullets with 96/2/2
96% lead
2% tin
2% antimony
The alloy calculator in the above link puts the GT alloy at 11bhn
They came up with the lead calculator in the link above over on the castbollits website.They also came up with the pencil test pictured above.
I did a little work up on the lead 130gr HP if used in a 2" 38 Spl.
At 830fps it has a ME of 199 that is very close to the old 125gr Nyclad loading.
Pump it up to 900fps and it match the 135 Gold Dot with a ME of 233 ft. lbs.
There is no problem getting good penetration out of a 2" with Jacket bullets
at 135grs or larger with factory loadings.
I will look forward to any other test with the GT bullets, I think
that they might be useful, even if just for target use.
At normal speeds this lead should expand.
PS;
E-Mail to GT on Jan. 2016......
was advised that the lead supply foundry was a 2-2-96 mixture
per conditions. From Geo. Patton.
At 830fps it has a ME of 199 that is very close to the old 125gr Nyclad loading.
Pump it up to 900fps and it match the 135 Gold Dot with a ME of 233 ft. lbs.
There is no problem getting good penetration out of a 2" with Jacket bullets
at 135grs or larger with factory loadings.
I will look forward to any other test with the GT bullets, I think
that they might be useful, even if just for target use.
At normal speeds this lead should expand.
PS;
E-Mail to GT on Jan. 2016......
was advised that the lead supply foundry was a 2-2-96 mixture
per conditions. From Geo. Patton.
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1sailor
Member
I would love to try some of GT's 145gr bullets but I have become spoiled by bullets coated with Hi-Tek. I'm thinking GT may be a smallish company and it may be too many extra steps to coat them.
safearm
US Veteran
I bought some of GT's 190 grain HP .430 bullets to use in my .44 Specials:
Charter Arms Boomer (2 inch barrel)
S&W 396-1 (3 inch barrel)
S&W 24-6 (6.5 inch barrel)
Starting charge of 6.5 grains of Unique. There's not much load data for lead bullets in this weight with Unique; I see everything from 5 grains to 9 grains.
I'm looking to duplicate/approximate the Federal 200 grain LSWCHP load for the 2 and 3 inch guns, which I carry the most.
Charter Arms Boomer (2 inch barrel)
S&W 396-1 (3 inch barrel)
S&W 24-6 (6.5 inch barrel)
Starting charge of 6.5 grains of Unique. There's not much load data for lead bullets in this weight with Unique; I see everything from 5 grains to 9 grains.
I'm looking to duplicate/approximate the Federal 200 grain LSWCHP load for the 2 and 3 inch guns, which I carry the most.
Model 15-4ever
Member
I just ordered some for the same purpose! My 3" Bulldogs shoot better with lead bullets. Any results from your loading?
That last testing I did with a 2 1/2" bbl'd bulldog
A link bunch of excellent articles on the 44spl including articles by the nra, kew waters & brian pearce.
Index of /44_Special_Articles
The pearce article is well worth reading!!! Pearce did an another article for handloader magizine earlier this year that just as good as the article in the link above.
A link bunch of excellent articles on the 44spl including articles by the nra, kew waters & brian pearce.
Index of /44_Special_Articles
The pearce article is well worth reading!!! Pearce did an another article for handloader magizine earlier this year that just as good as the article in the link above.
fredj338
Member
Agree with Forrest on testing methods. Water is actually quite "hard" for HP testing. If it doesn't open in water jugs, it isn't going to expand in tissue. Wetpack is much closer to the density & water content of flesh, why bullet manuf used it for decades tot test their own bullets.
